[Gasification] tar Processign

Thu May 12 08:55:29 CDT 2011

We remove the tar from the gas stream and recycle it back into the 
reactor for destruction. It increases the heating value of the gas 
substantially by doing so. It is difficult to handle, do any 
significant treatment/separations or other actions on it to make it 
useful otherwise.
Sincerely,
Leland T. "Tom" Taylor
President
Thermogenics Inc.

-----Original Message-----
From: vikrant bhalerao <vikrantbhalerao12 at gmail.com>
To: gasification <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Sent: Wed, May 11, 2011 10:39 pm
Subject: Re: [Gasification] tar Processign

To , all

Can somebody elaborate the usage of Tar (waste(??) of Biomass 
Gasification) ? Also i would like to explore the viability of Tar 
process to nano fluid  as Tar is complex carbon compund...
Thanks
With Regards,
Vikrant Bhalerao
Cummins Research and Technology Inc.
Mobile +91 89 833 20 725

On Thu, May 12, 2011 at 12:30 AM, 
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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: Charcoal Gasifiers (Robert Kana)
  2. Re: Charcoal Gasifiers (Anand Karve)
  3. Re: Charcoal Gasifiers (doug.williams)
  4. Fruit of my ideas help Mississippi (Carefreeland at aol.com)
  5. wrong article- try this (Carefreeland at aol.com)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 03:14:21 +0700
From: Robert Kana <sinan at biomassindo.com>
To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
       <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Charcoal Gasifiers
Message-ID: <4DC99C9D.60007 at biomassindo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Dear Arnt,
When we distill wood vinegar, actually very little tar comes to the
collection tank, rest of the tar either stays in the pipes (has to be
cleaned every month). This collection is done while the wood or
briquettes are drying in the chamber. Wood vinegar has no tar, for soil
enrichment and ph control, it is diluted with water 1/100 or 200. It can
also be used as pest control if diluted 1/300-500, just spray on the
leaves and fruits.  About 5-10 cc is put in to bath tub to clean the
body, it is the main ingredient used in detox pads. When the wood gas
start coming out, the chimney which is connected to the retort chamber
is closed and we start burning wood gas in retort's fire chamber to keep
heating the wood until the gas is finished, by than wood become
charcoal. If this wood gas could be harnessed, as Tom says there is a
huge amount of energy is there.
So far I have tried couple of ways but not successful, and still 
trying...
Regards,
Robert

------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:38:00 +0800
From: Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com>
To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
       <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Charcoal Gasifiers
Message-ID: <BANLkTiktN7phvsu18g9b+FdhXZyaWOHbWA at mail.gmail.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

Dear List,
we have tested wood vinegar as a pesticide on plants. It works in the
case of moderate infestation, but if the infestation is severe,
especially with sucking pests such as mealy bugs and woolly aphids,
one has to use a conventional organo-phosphatic systemic insecticide.
Biochar has never worked in our local soils, which have pH higher
than 8.5. Wood vinegar has a number of organic acids in it, which may
be used by the soil micro-organisms as their carbon source, so that
they multiply their numbers. That the population density of soil
micro-organisms is positively correlated with soil fertility, is a
known and accepted fact. Therefore, any treatment, which causes the
soil microbe population to rise, would automatically result in higher
soil fertility.
Yours
A.D.Karve

On Wed, May 11, 2011 at 1:07 AM, Arnt Karlsen <arnt at c2i.net> 
wrote:
> On Tue, 10 May 2011 21:12:57 +0700, Robert wrote in message
> <4DC947E9.5090303 at biomassindo.com>:
>
>> Dear Anand,
>> Thanks for the info. I am a charcoal specialist with biomass
>> background. I own a small briquette charcoal factory and we 
know how
>> to use barrel to make charcoal. One suggestion, if you have a 
long
>> chimney in the back, slent to chimney 30 degrees, cover the 
top (must
>> be a temporary cover, when the wood gas started coming out we 
need to
>> move the cover to burn the gas), let the wood smoke get cooler 
and
>> put drum on the bottom so you can also collect wood vinegar 
and teach
>> the farmers how to use wood vinegar for soil enrichment, 
against
>> pests... Regards,
>> Robert
>
> ..how much carbon can be put into farmland soil this way,
> and the biochar way?
>
> --
> ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt Karlsen
> ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
> ?Scenarios always come in sets of three:
> ?best case, worst case, and just in case.
>
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>

--
***
Dr. A.D. Karve
President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)

*Please change my email address in your records to: adkarve at gmail.com *

------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 18:43:30 +1200
From: "doug.williams" <Doug.Williams at orcon.net.nz>
To: "Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification"
       <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: Re: [Gasification] Charcoal Gasifiers
Message-ID: <287CD0D497144956AB221B0401BC52DF at dougspc>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Hi Dr Karve,

As this particular line of discussion is relevant to work of my 
associates, I would like to offer some comments that may be of interest 
to yourself and others who use the term biochars for soils enhancement. 
I also have personal interest as a organic citrus grower (in past 
years), and there is some relevance to put reason behind certain 
failures.

>we have tested wood vinegar as a pesticide on plants. It works in 
the
>case of moderate infestation, but if the infestation is severe,
>especially with sucking pests such as mealy bugs and woolly aphids,
>one has to use a conventional organo-phosphatic systemic 
insecticide.

As an acid, wood vinegar cannot penetrate the waxy type coating of 
"some" pests. From experience (not with wood vinegar), you need to add 
a surfacicant, which wets the infestation through it's protective 
coating. This is a simple as adding a liquid detergent to the spray 
mix. I have no recommended ratio, but you can see it work when the 
spray wets the insect. Most phenolic compounds will kill or upset the 
insect to detach and leave the feeding surfaces.

>Biochar has never worked in our local soils, which have pH higher
>than 8.5. Wood vinegar has a number of organic acids in it, which 
may
>be used by the soil micro-organisms as their carbon source, so that
>they multiply their numbers. That the population density of soil
>micro-organisms is positively correlated with soil fertility, is a
>known and accepted fact.

If the soils are already containing high levels of carbon or 
micro-organisms, what you say has relevance, but key here in this type 
of discussion, is the type of char being used. Most char readily 
available as a waste stream and dumped as soil enhancement, is of the 
wrong type to provide a habitat for soil micro-organisms, being made to 
maximize the carbon content and density for smokeless cooking. This is 
the type needed for carbon sequestrian to maximize the reduction of 
atmospheric carbon. Soil bacteria on the other hand, need safe 
habitats, and this type of carbon is of the activated type, with huge 
internal surface porosities. Other than providing a habitat, the carbon 
also provide the means of holding nutrients in soils that might not 
retain them if applied just to the soils.

Therefore, any treatment, which causes the
soil microbe population to rise, would automatically result in higher
soil fertility.

I am 100% behind your conclusion, and hope the work that many are 
devoting their soil research work, can add to their knowledge from the 
flow on effect, of gasification technology.

Hope this might be of interest.

Doug Williams,
Fluidyne Gasification.
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Message: 4
Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:26:43 EDT
From: Carefreeland at aol.com
To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
Subject: [Gasification] Fruit of my ideas help Mississippi
Message-ID: <c69a6.6c26f980.3afbf6a3 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Gasification friends,

It's been a while. Turbulent times for me here in  Dayton, Ohio.  I
received a call from John Guthrie a couple of weeks ago.  He told me 
that he had
sold the land he wanted to sell me, to a company that  makes pellets. 
He said
" Katrina took all of our small trees". I thought he said  Pallets and
didn't know what he was calling me for. Then he mentioned a chipping 
 mill now
being built there. After I got off the phone I realized you don't need 
 a
chipping mill to make Pallets. I remembered pushing him in 2005 to 
bring a  wood
pellet mill to Wiggins because the pulp market was glutted. He didn't 
know
much about wood pellets.
    I did a search on the web and found out what  happened to my need to
create a job for my tree shear with the pulp business  glutted. LOL
_http://biomassmagazine.com/articles/5044/enviva-acquires-pellet-plants-e
xpa
nds-pproduction_
(http://biomassmagazine.com/articles/5044/enviva-acquires-pellet-plants-e
xpands-pproduction)

Check it out. Maybe he will send some pellets north on the Kansas City
Southern, the railroad company that brought him to Wiggins in 1948. A 
the time
Wiggins grew cucumbers and sold pickles.

   You never know what will happen when you start  promoting Biomass
energy.

   Dan Dimiduk
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Message: 5
Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 10:45:06 EDT
From: Carefreeland at aol.com
To: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
Subject: [Gasification] wrong article- try this
Message-ID: <c7ea0.6ca9f7ba.3afbfaf2 at aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

_http://biomassmagazine.com/articles/5044/enviva-acquires-pellet-plants-e
xpa
nds-production_
(http://biomassmagazine.com/articles/5044/enviva-acquires-pellet-plants-e
xpands-production)

Dan Dimiduk
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End of Gasification Digest, Vol 9, Issue 5
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