[Gasification] BIOCOAL - THE WOOD FUEL OF THE ???????
Thomas Koch
tk at tke.dk
Thu Jul 19 14:05:34 CDT 2012
Dear P.V
I lost the track of your argumentation in your reply. Can ask you to put the questions and statements you would like me to comment on first.
Best regards
Thomas Koch
Fra: gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org [mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] På vegne af Pannirselvam P.V
Sendt: 19. juli 2012 18:48
Til: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
Emne: Re: [Gasification] BIOCOAL - THE WOOD FUEL OF THE ???????
Hi
On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 9:28 AM, Thomas Koch <tk at tke.dk<mailto:tk at tke.dk>> wrote:
In this discussion about biocoal - or torrefied wood it is very important to know why you are doing it.
very important objective questions , any product or process design need to have very clear objective design goal
I can only agree that you can heat wood to 200 oC using 10-12 % of hi as heat - some mec hanical energy and have a challenge with the "tars" that has evaporated.
But - what have you obtained? apart from 20 % of the energy is lost and you have a tarry waste water mess to handle?
There are good pyrolysis design where this energy can be minimized good bio oil , low quality gas but can be good to use is possible
GEK pyrolysis is one such good examples , where these energy lost in the steam , combustion gases need to be made possible.Thus integrated enegy generation has been not considered in remote places
The only reason that could justify torrefication - MAYBE - is if you want to feed the wood into an entrained flow reactor and needs particles of 100-200 my. To get a char/wood quality where that is possible
Thomas , can you give me how many entrained flow reactor are working , as milling need energy , then suspending in the bed need energy ,Is it really viable in small , medium and big scale projects.
You need to heat to 280-300 oC - and then you lose 30-40 % of the energy content plus some mechanical energy~ that sums up to that you have only 50 % of the original energy left to sell.
Very important point is the energy balance , too much burning for too little , thus even no more benefits for environments
With the focus of protection renewable carbon it will never be acceptable!
This also need good CO2 balance , too much burning loss of enegy you bring here , make me understand your pont very well made in this context
There are many positive points as described well by others including Prof Dr.Tom Reeds
There is an need to make possible this technology some biomass energy integration too in remote area , this simple hydrolysis can make possible big scale centralized power plant where big mega city are there .
Thomas , i guess there are several 20 plants made in Europe and may be the same amount in USA as an alternate fuel to centralized power plant as they always consumed charcoal , thus destroyed more than 50 percent of the forest, after this yet import charcoal , now very cheap biocoal .Here equipment manufacture play key roles here .This was very well explained in earlier post by TOM Miles , who are behind and push this technology innovation .But if there is no stakeholders to make it sustainable it may not survive
Thomas , you have made correct questions in correct contexts , made correct answer too , thus I can happily agree with your views
Thomas Koch
-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org<mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org> [mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org<mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org>] På vegne af Thomas Reed
Sendt: 19. juli 2012 13:39
Til: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
Cc: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
Emne: Re: [Gasification] BIOCOAL - THE WOOD FUEL OF THE FUTURE
Tom Koch and all
I believe BIOCOAL can be made from dry wood with less than 20% energy loss. It only requires the energy to raise the dry wood from 100-300C. Taking wood heat capacity as
1.26 kJ/kg-deg
the energy to heat from 20-300C would be (280x1.26) 350 kJ/kg. (There could be other exotheric or endothermic energy terms, but his should be the right magnitude.)
(1 kJ ~ 1 Btu.)
so the energy cost of BIOCOAL is small compared to the 8000 Btu of heat released on burning.
Thomas B Reed
On Jul 17, 2012, at 1:11 AM, Thomas Koch <tk at tke.dk<mailto:tk at tke.dk>> wrote:
> But it will cost 50 % of the heating value of the wood
>
> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> Fra: gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org<mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> [mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org<mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org>] På vegne af
> linvent at aol.com<mailto:linvent at aol.com>
> Sendt: 16. juli 2012 20:15
> Til: gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org<mailto:gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>; mark at ludlow.com<mailto:mark at ludlow.com>;
> mantal at hawaii.edu<mailto:mantal at hawaii.edu>; artsolar at aol.com<mailto:artsolar at aol.com>; rwalt at gocpc.com<mailto:rwalt at gocpc.com>
> Emne: Re: [Gasification] BIOCOAL - THE WOOD FUEL OF THE FUTURE
>
> There is a company formed to make torrified wood. I am terrified of the prospects as it would be a lot easier to gasify wood at the site of coal use.
>
> Sincerely,
> Leland T. "Tom" Taylor
> Thermogenics Inc.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tombreed <tombreed2010 at gmail.com<mailto:tombreed2010 at gmail.com>>
> To: mark <mark at ludlow.com<mailto:mark at ludlow.com>>; Michael Antal <mantal at hawaii.edu<mailto:mantal at hawaii.edu>>; Art
> Lilley <artsolar at aol.com<mailto:artsolar at aol.com>>; Robb Walt <rwalt at gocpc.com<mailto:rwalt at gocpc.com>>
> Cc: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org<mailto:gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>>
> Sent: Mon, Jul 16, 2012 7:25 am
> Subject: [Gasification] BIOCOAL - THE WOOD FUEL OF THE FUTURE
>
> Dear Mark, Greg and all
>
>
> Thanks for your good wishes, and I am now mobile with a walker. Lots of time to pursue thermoplastics, pyrolysis and BIOCOAL.
>
>
> <><><>
>
>
> BIOCOAL (290-310C) is a very specific product of WOOD TORREFACTION
> (200-310C) which may become the ideal end product for wood fuel in the
> future.
>
>
> Heating wood to 300C drives off all water and some excess H2O and CO2,
> giving an increase of energy content from ~ 8000 to 10,000 Btu/lb, a
> friable product easily reduced to face powder particle size for
> coal-like combustion, pelletization use, and conferring a waterproof
> nature. The emitted gases are combustible, and more than adequate to
> provide the process heat for roasting, crushing and briquetting. It is
> superior to coal In lacking suffer and high ash.
>
>
> I wish I was younger and richer. I believe I would jump into Biocoal
> with both feet. Conventional COAL is such an ideal fuel in many ways,
> and Biocoal fixes the problem areas of sulfur and ash.
>
>
> <><><>
>
>
> Before my fall I was planning to convert a 55 gal drum of wood scrap
> into BIOCOAL. I hope someone will try this.
>
>
> At idle the exhaust of a car or truck is about 700C at several ATM
> pressure. Two taps, before and after the muffler should make it
> possible to withdraw a 300C stream of gas through the barrel of wood
> and heat the wood to BIOCOAL without allowing overheating.
>
>
> By heating with a 300C gas, one prevents the exothermic continuing of
> the wood to charcoal at 400 C.
>
>
> Looking forward to a BIOCOAL future,
>
>
> Tom Reed
>
> Thomas B Reed
>
>
>
> On Jul 15, 2012, at 2:59 PM, Greg Manning <a31ford at gmail.com<mailto:lt%3Ba31ford at gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
>
>
> Greetings Tom, (and list)
>
> Tom, It's great to hear that the fall was not really bad, even though
> still an inconvenence though.
>
>
> I have one question/answer I would like to pose, and that is....
>
>
> Every pelletized product I've gasified, all have done the same thing,
> they expand in heat/moisture of the hearth.
>
>
> One solution I've come up with (even though it lowers the total
> output of the gasifier) is using parasitic power to run a torification
> process, instead of a partial combustion process.
>
>
> All in all, when one looks to both methods of gas evolution, the later
> is a cleaner method (torification). With the losses of available mass
> for gas, when partial combustion is applied, the parasitic power
> difference, in torification is much less, (because of more mass being
> torified, instead of combusted).
>
>
> Torification is a much easier method of controlling the hearth's
> internal temperature, IMO, and handles pelleted products much better,
> as it gets the moisture level to a level that does not expand the
> pellets as much (air moisture ??).
>
>
>
>
> Greg Manning
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jul 15, 2012 at 11:30 AM, Tombreed
> <tombreed2010 at gmail.com<mailto:lt%3Btombreed2010 at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Dear Mark and all
>
>
> Thanks so much for your warming words, twice as warming, here in the
> Fairview Recovery unit of the Worcester Memorial Hospital system. I
> fell down 13 stairs, bound to be unlucky, BUT no permanent damage!
> I'm recuperating in my daugher's guest suite, dreaming about a Fall cruise!
> <><><>
> Here's a puzzle for all to chew on. "Gasification" of wood implies
> the complete conversion of both the cellulose (80%) and lignin (20%)
> components. The tars from the lignin are basically aromatic due to
> the aromatic structure of lignin, and may be the principle component
> of the smoke and tar.
>
>
> The primary fuel is then the cellulose smoke, various volatiles that
> burn cleanly, leaving no solids.
> My expert Friend, Mike Antal, Coral Prof. At the University of Hawaii,
> could give chapter and verse on the nature of the volatiles from
> burning celluloses.
>
>
> Paper and high cellulose paper products could be a much cleaner
> biomass fuel and are easily pelletized. Wood pellets have become a
> major fuel source in the past decade. Is it possible that paper
> pellets could be even more important and cleaner and cheaper?
>
>
> Best wishes to all of you from Tom Reed, back from a bad fall.
>
>
> Tom Reed
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Thomas B Reed
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 12, 2012, at 3:42 AM, "Mark Ludlow" <a> wrote:
>
>
>
> Dear Dr. Reed, You are a mainstay and inspiration to us all. How
> frustrating it must have been to feel yourself fall! There's really no
> reason why the Universe chose you. It certainly was not Karma. I know
> you must feel miserable. But I hope that you know that many people love
> and admire you and are probably wishing, as I wish, that they could
> have taken that fall for you. Best wishes,Mark
>
>
>
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--
************************************************
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