[Gasification] raising H2 concentration indowndraft gasification
mark at ludlow.com
Sun Dec 22 06:16:07 CST 2013
Thank you P.V., for condensing (as it were) the various issues and pathways. Rex is shooting for the œuf d'or (golden egg) of gasification: FUEL. Well, I think he has been quite forthcoming and we should not expect open disclosure of every detail. The economic importance of such a system is substantial, as we all must realize. Somehow, I believe that Rex may make it to the finish line, largely because his enterprise is not larded-down with public or sugar daddy funding; and also because he is very smart and clever. Go for it, Rex!
Lists of all kinds are viable because of the generosity of their members (The inevitable holiday tie-in!) There is room for everyone at the table but it’s a potluck. We bring, share with all, then leave with a full belly.
Thanks to Tom Miles, especially. This is his list. However, his generosity, knowledge, experience and even-handedness makes all of us empowered.
Happy Holidays to All,
From: Gasification [mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Pannirselvam P.V
Sent: Sunday, December 22, 2013 2:25 AM
To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
Subject: Re: [Gasification] raising H2 concentration indowndraft gasification
Greetings to Rex and all list members
Happy holiday Xmas, New year to All the list members
We have very good open technical information exchange here and a special happy holiday greetings to the very well organized technical team members of the list , well managed by our Word wide list Coordinator Tom Mile , make possible all about biomass gasification in one place , the image ,videos, all the list members many text comments in an organised , easy to acess from anywheer from any time .
Very Important unsolved Gasification design problems
Coming to the very good topics REX has brought here , we need to realy break this silence of many list members as the topic is very , very importante one , need active atention of all list members , not silence one can expects .
The h2 rich syngas
The hydrogen rich syngas can be obtianed using pyrogas , charcoal with recycled syngas at high tempertaures above 800, as C02 will be reduced , some methane may be there,
The carcoal can help to reduce c02 , as well provide energy needed , as already pointed out by REX
This hydrogen rich gas can be used for bio oil enrichmento to make valuable biocrude using mixed catalyst as one with Ficher tropics Fe as outline to make oil from c02 , as well as bio oil leaving ,syngas without the h2 , as this can be recycled back to make h2 rich syngas from pyrogas as described aboove
Thus there is syngas loop , and there is no need to worry about PSA C02 problemas .
Thus pyrolysis can play key role along with charcoal gasification routes for syngas .Use of steam to increase the h2 is also need to be done as very well outilned by Kelvin and Tomm need .The heat needed all can be obtained using syngas and steam production too depending on the local demand
Syngas loop proven technology
Syngas recycle to biomass gasification to make methanol via hygenol is already proven to be viable to make methanol , howvever syngas use to biomass gasification can be more complex one.As pyrogas is is the route , as you prove the h2 requirement is less, this new h2 enriched gas without any need using only pyrogas and recycled gas with charcoal can make possible the h2 needed to make decentralised biomassrefinery production to make biooil crude oil, biochar ,syngas in a integratedway
Small biorefinery from biomass need not be very big and complex
As this innovative process design is very complex, Rex , one cannot expect more idea, thus more silence from list members is taking place.Even list coordinatior usual comment from Tom ,what all list members can expects. One of our list the best Technical expertTom Reed , his very long year of practical experience need to becombined with your projects..
Small Biomass refinery need To energy products need to practical proven one
Already one company from Europe sell comercialy via linkedin group , a system to make biocrude oil wirth mechanical contact direct catalytic hydrogenation of biomass. The required h2 is obtained from fractionationation of biooilcrude oil ,as outlined by REX. More information about this comercial process is available via linked in social Netwok .
Innovation with ideas via Brain storming of all is an urgent need, not the silence
We need more ideas, sugestion from young list members , not silence as unexpeted from REX, as even very bad idea, sugestion can help to find the correct best innovative path .The brain storming by severl list members , not silence, can be made possible. We ,the list members all are very well conected by list Many , all all know the basics of biomass, gasification . Even the new one can learn very fast ,as chemistry behind the technology is well explained her our expert Tom Reed make more clear the required chemical pathway in order to make the technology outlined well too as the design requirementos .Thus sure new 2014 we can solve the pyrolysis combined gasification as small birefinery for energy the required design problems ,clearly well defined by REX. The solution related to enegy problems given by Kelvins. The science required by Tom Reed, as we small chemical engineering research group , the recycle process needed for process synthesis.
thus innovative proces need both process design problems, process synthesis, process analysis.All can innovate ,give ideas as silence make one pasive , let us all be ative as the per coreect wish from REX and list coordinator
ASSOCIATE . PROF.UFRN.
Research Group ,GPEC, Coordinator Computer aided Cost engineering
DEQ – Departamento de Engenharia Química
CT – Centro de Tecnologia / UFRN, Lagoa Nova – Natal/RN
Campus Universitário. CEP: 59.072-970;North East,Brazil
pannirbr at gmail.com <mailto:pannirbr at gmail.com>
On Sun, Dec 22, 2013 at 4:26 AM, Rex Zietsman <rex at whitfieldfarm.co.za <mailto:rex at whitfieldfarm.co.za> > wrote:
<http://www.boxbe.com/stfopen?tc_serial=15943256992&tc_rand=1765389530&utm_source=stf&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ANNO_CLEANUP_ADD&utm_content=001> This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! ( <mailto:rex at whitfieldfarm.co.za> rex at whitfieldfarm.co.za) <https://www.boxbe.com/popup?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.boxbe.com%2Fcleanup%3Ftoken%3DAbcykjmdTeULolsGbGC%252BHHnhgnch5wiXHWR4i0C%252B2BVOyNWbjnSmtNL52bzRTfRJ3PXXXvkzys0ToWHv0UgMCdkOIKGyXeGnt3FM4NIUAWAcvpeqHxC5mzIyP58R%252BzBVItpWwelHqd3hBFggcD3mxQ%253D%253D%26key%3DZJAUPhasEDdfUWkLi%252BVfK03JmjCDtof4AWD22ypgKcI%253D&tc_serial=15943256992&tc_rand=1765389530&utm_source=stf&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ANNO_CLEANUP_ADD&utm_content=001> Add cleanup rule | <http://blog.boxbe.com/general/boxbe-automatic-cleanup?tc_serial=15943256992&tc_rand=1765389530&utm_source=stf&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ANNO_CLEANUP_ADD&utm_content=001> More info
Dear Tom and the List,
Happy holidays to all and merry Christmas for the 25th.
Believe it or not, but we are going via liquefaction and catalytic cracking
aided by in situ hydrotreating and deoxygenation of long chain hydrocarbon
molecules all in one reactor. We produce a decent deoxygenated oil, not
pyrolysis oil. Low yield - only about 250 litres/ton of 15% MC biomass. When
tested via the ASTM tests for diesel, it has a longer tail at both high and
low boilers - easily fixed with fractionation. But, if the starting
feedstock contains sulphur, the residual sulphur is about 10% of the
incoming. This can be as high as 500ppm in the oil which is fine for
"standard" diesel. To make ultralow sulphur diesel we have to hydrotreat.
Hence the hydrogen requirement.
In one of our projects, we have waste vegetable oil at a good price. The
idea is to deoxygenate this oil to produce a diesel similar to that from
crude oil. Here the hydrogen requirement is high in the range of 30kg/ton.
As it is still relatively small ie 1200 litres/hour, we need 30kg/hour of
H2. Hence the post.
All the best
From: Thomas Reed [mailto:tombreed2010 at gmail.com <mailto:tombreed2010 at gmail.com> ]
Sent: 21 December 2013 12:07 AM
To: Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification
Cc: <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org <mailto:gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org> >; John M. Bradley; Chuck
Subject: Re: [Gasification] raising H2 concentration in downdraft
Dear Rex and All;
Merry Xmas and happy synthesizing.
Rex must be a chemical engineer because he has outlined the problem nicely
A partial solution is reaction of only the 80% cellulose in the wood to make
a synthesis gas:
C6H10O5 + 1/2 O2 ===> 6 CO + 5 H2
And leaving the 20% lignin behind as charcoal (Biochar) for soil enrichment
and atmospheric CO2 reduction.
Reaction of part of the CO with water reduces the unbalance to an excellent
6 CO + 5 H2 + 3 H2O ===> 3 CO + 8 H2. || ==> 3CH2 (oil) + 3 H2
Leaving enough excess H2 to drive the reaction forward. Toplit Updraft
gasification consumes the cellulose , leaving the lignin as Biochar.
I am an expert in molecular sieves, and have made a quantity of a Fischer
Tropsch catalyst with one isolated Fe atom per unit cell. Should make a low
If anyone has the means, and would like to pursue this, contact me privately
with an offer.
Dr. Thomas B Reed
280 Hardwick Rd
Barre, Ma 01005
> On Dec 16, 2013, at 2:56 AM, "Rex Zietsman" <rex at whitfieldfarm.co.za <mailto:rex at whitfieldfarm.co.za> >
> Hi All,
> We are looking at a system that will hydrotreat bio oils from
> pyrolysis, catalytic cracking and vegetable oil. For this we need in
> the region of 30kg hydrogen/ton oil. At small scale ie 1 ton oil/hour,
> this works out at, you guessed it, 30kg of hydrogen/hour. As this is a
> small amount in the overall scheme of things, we are looking at
> gasifying wood chips and to recover the hydrogen using pressure swing
> absorption. What I would like to know is whether we can increase the
> H2 concentration in syngas by tweaking the gasifier. Clearly we can
> look at the water gas shift reaction but, as the syngas has to be
> cooled, washed, pressurised and reheated, it is quite an additional
> investment for the scale we are looking at. If we could simply up the
> H2 content, we would go straight from washing to PSA. Residual gas
> would be piped to a diesel generator where CO and the like will be
combusted prior to exhaust to atmosphere.
> For easy mental arithmetic, let us assume a 33% H2 concentration in
> dry syngas. 30kg/hour of H2 is 15kmol/hour or 15/0.33 = 45kmol/hour of
> syngas. A kmol of gas has a volume of 22.4 Nm3. So, to get 30kg/hour
> requires 22.4 x
> 45 = 1000 Nm3 syngas/hour (mental arithmetic here, go with the flow).
> Assuming an 80% PSA recovery this means that we need 1250Nm3/hour of
> Not a bad sized downdraft gasifier! Assuming 6MJ/Nm3, this is around a
> 2MW thermal unit. If we can get the H2 concentration up to say 40%,
> then the syngas requirement would be 37.5kmol/hour or 37.5/45 x 1250 =
> roughly 80% of
> 1250 or roughly 1000 Nm3 syngas/hour. This reduces the size of
> gasifier to 1.6MW thermal and more sensible in size.
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