[Gasification] mycoremediation of tarry water

[GFWHELL at aol.com]

In a message dated 2/3/2013 12:50:34 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
kchisholm at ca.inter.net writes:

Dear Stuart

----- Original Message ----- 
From:  _stuart mather_ (mailto:kneebraceboy at yahoo.com.au)  
To: _Kevin C_ (mailto:kchisholm at ca.inter.net)  ; 
_gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org_ (mailto:gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org)   
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 8:17  PM
Subject: Re: [Gasification]  mycoremediation of tarry water








 
  
____________________________________
 From: Kevin C <_kchisholm at ca.inter.net_ (mailto:kchisholm at ca.inter.net) >
To: stuart mather <_kneebraceboy at yahoo.com.au_ 
(mailto:kneebraceboy at yahoo.com.au) >;  Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification 
<_gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org_ (mailto:gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org) >  
Sent: Saturday, 2 February  2013 2:50 PM
Subject: Re:  [Gasification] mycoremediation of tarry water



Kevin  wrote:
....While I have not seen a report showing that blackwater  disposal is 
harmful to the environment, I have not seen one that says it is  not harmful 
either. However, a competent Gasifier Operator sent me pictures  of his 
blackwater dump site a few years after he stopped dumping blackwater  there, and 
the plants growing there seemed just as vigorous and healthy as  nearby 
plants outside teh dump zone.
> 
> Best  wishes,
> 
> Kevin

That's intriguing Kevin,
So I wonder why there seems to be a  general consensus that dumping tarry 
water in a pond amounts to  environmental vandalism. Not saying your gasifier 
correspondent was making  it up. But you would think the President of 
Myanmar would have better things  to do than declare black water gasification 
leach ponds toxic sites  Military juntas aren't well known for their 
environmental awareness.  So why the concern about tar ponds people?
Stuart.
 
# A "Tar Pond" or  "Blackwater Disposal Pond" is a highly concentrated 
"disposal situation".  Too much of anything is almost certain to be a problem. 
One cannot grow  carrots or wheat in a pond used to dispose of distilled 
water, and ethanol  alcohol is a poison when taken in excess quantities at high 
concentrations,  as an extreme examples. The issues here are one of both 
toxicity and  concentration. A "Gasifier Tarpond" could indeed become qualified 
as a  'superfund site." However, the same chemicals, if spread in dilute 
form over  say 1, or 10, or 100 square miles may present no significant 
hazard, and may  even yiled a net benefit. 
 
# I would say  intuitively that there is a combination of "toxicity and 
concentration"  above which, gasifire tar disposal is "bad", and that there are 
"toxicity  and concentration" combinations below which gasifier tars are 
not hazardous,  and may even be beneficial. I don't know all the compounds in 
gasifier  tars, and the concentrations below which they can be "generally 
considered  as safe." In my opinion, nobody can responsibly say for certain 
that  "gasifier tars are toxic" unless one specifies both the components and  
concentration. Neither can anyone say for certain that  "gasifier  tars are 
safe" unless one has a rational data base to support the statement.  

# The process of  smoking fish, meat, and other food products can be looked 
on as a way to  dispose of "gasifier tars." :-) The fact that such "smoke 
tars" preserve  foods proves that such tars are toxic to some life-forms. 
Some studies  suggest that smoked foods are bad, while others suggest that 
while there may  be some "cancer deaths" as a result of eating such smoked 
foods, the  benefits from reducing deaths from pathogenic organisms that would 
otherwise  be present greatly exceed the "smoking detriments."
 
# "The way to eliminate  the gasifier tar problem is to eliminate tar 
formation in the first place."  This is not that difficult with properly designed 
and operated gasifiers.  This can be done, as is evidenced by the many 
gasifiers in operation fueling  IC engines, with no tar problems. Stratified 
downdraft gasifiers, and  updraft gasifiers are well known as "tarry gas 
producers." In some  applications, such gasifier systems can be very appropriate, 
because of  their generally lower capital cost, and their ability to handle 
a  wider range of fuel sizing and moisture content. Such gases can often  be 
burned directly, without need for tar removal. TLUD stoves, which are  
basically "an updraft gasifier with a build-in burner to destroy the tars"  are 
an excellent example of a gasification system where tarry gas is  not a 
problem. If one wants to pipe such gas to a burner at a distance  from the 
gasifier, then tar build-up in piping is likely to be a problem.  Water quenching 
of such gas will remove many of the tars, ash and char  that cause pipes to 
plug. Then one has the problem and cost of dealing with  the "blackwater." 
If the problem, and cost of dealing with it are big  enough, then it may be 
better to employ a different gasifier, and different  fuel preparation 
techniques, to produce a gas with an acceptable tar  level. 
 
Best  wishes,
 
Kevin







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