[Greenbuilding] Counters

[Steve Houlihan]

I have build many tile countertops in my career.  I have built mortar 
beds, used Durock, Hardibacker and Wonderboard and set tile directly on 
plywood.  without exception every tile install I did over plywood 
failed!  I very strongly discourage this idea! Eventually the grout 
cracks and water gets down into the plywood and it swells and destroys 
the countertop.

In the beginning you said you wanted to do tile and that will still be 
the easiest and cheapest.  If you stay away from the very hard porcelain 
or vitrified tiles you should have no problem cutting tiles with a snap 
cutter or a carborundum grit blade in a jig saw.

My preference for tile counters is to put down a layer of 1/2 inch 
Hardibacker Board using lots of screws and a layer of thin-set then set 
the tiles on top of this again using thinset.  This makes a very strong 
and long lasting countertop.  I have set tile directly on good sheetrock 
walls for a backsplash and this works well as long as the house doesn't 
move too much. Some re-caulking at the junction of the backsplash and 
countertop may be needed.  I have also used 1/4 inch backerboard on 
backsplashes.  Then you can use thinset and fiberglass mesh tape at the 
joint but you have to deal with the 1/4 inch edge at the top.

Steve



On 7/27/11 6:12 AM, JOHN SALMEN wrote:
> Depends what you mean about warpage. I've even had concrete counters warp
> (deflect, bend, twist) - most materials move so it is a question of gluing,
> screwing, nailing, supporting, blocking and sealing to provide support and
> resist movement. Basic exterior 3/4" ply is pretty resistant to moisture and
> moisture damage (can be wetted and dried numerous times without damage).
> Before cement boards became common 1/2" exterior ply was the standard backer
> for tile walls on premium projects. I would recommend stick with the ply and
> tile plan and provide whatever additional support is needed underneath to
> support the spans and make the material rigid. A thin layer of cement board
> is excellent to use under the tile and is better around sink areas as a
> substrate - bond it to the ply with tile mortar and screws (lap any seams in
> the ply).
>
> I also recommend butcher block counters. Surprisingly inexpensive natural
> material that you can purchase by the foot, refinish numerous times by
> sanding and oiling and takes on character as it gets burned and stained and
> well used.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: greenbuilding-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
> [mailto:greenbuilding-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Lynelle
> Hamilton
> Sent: July-26-11 6:29 PM
> To: Green Building
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Counters
>
> The warping is noticeable, so I'm already replacing the ply. I'd have to
> figure out how to keep any new ply from warping, though. What's the heat
> resistance, do you know? Bamboo would be great for the edge.
> Thanks, Jason!
>
> Lynelle
>
> On 26/07/2011 9:20 PM, Jason Holstine wrote:
>> How about Marmoleum sheet on that plywood (or, if it's warped, replace
>> the plywood for about 15 cents). Ol' fashioned, all-natural, easy to
>> clean, durable linoleum. Just glue it up on the ply. Material should
>> should be about $7/sf and if you're reasonably astute, could be DIY.
>> Biggest issue is your front edge-you'll probably want a different
>> material for the edge band, like a bamboo, wood, or metal.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 7/26/11 9:00 PM, "Lynelle Hamilton"<lynelle at lahamilton.com>  wrote:
>>
>>      Again, I ask the list for advice. I am now at the point of installing
>>      kitchen counters. I have had plywood on the counters (3/4 overlaid
>>      and
>>      screwed to 3/8", as a substrate for tile, but have had warping
>>      (I'm on
>>      the water). I don't trust it for tile. I've been told others in
>>      the area
>>      have had this problem. They've generally solved it by installing
>>      Arborite, something I am loathe to do.
>>
>>      That places me squarely in a quandary. I can't find reclaimed granite
>>      in the size I need--the reclamation folks near me generally sell the
>>      counters with the cabinets anyway. The budget will not allow for
>>      "new"
>>      granite and I want to use something that screws the earth less than
>>      other options (particularly given that I've already wasted some
>>      otherwise good plywood).
>>
>>      I am the installer, so it must be pretty simple.
>>
>>      Any creative ideas out there?
>>
>>      Thanks!
>>
>>      Lynelle
>>
>>
>>
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