[Greenbuilding] Redoing all floors

[Ktot (g)]

I have been told by numerous concrete contractors that after the stain, a sealer is always applied--one of several possible types. Then a layer of wax may be applied, as that provides a scuff or scratch layer. But without exception, everyone told me after staining, they apply a sealer before any possible wax.
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Anncha 
  To: Green Building 
  Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 10:38 PM
  Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Redoing all floors


  I don't understand why anyone would seal the stained floors. Waxing is so much nicer, it gives a beautiful warm glow. I did my floors ten years ago, waxed them 
  and was told to wax them every year, did that once but have never bothered again. I am so happy with them and get compliments all the time.


  Anncha


  Anncha Briggs, ASID/ASRID
  AR State Registered Interior Designer #2001
  NCIDQ Certificate #015650
  design and art consultation
  T 501 663 1016


  E anncha1 at aol.com


  Please consider the environment before printing this email.


  On Jul 27, 2011, at 5:34 PM, Ktot (g) wrote:


    I can't imagine the dark stains that are peeling up are white based, but I'm no stain expert and (another problem) the contractor refuses to tell me the brand/name of stain used (other than it's water-based).

    What do you mean "the concrete was never acid etched before using the sealer"? I don't believe anything was done after staining before sealing other than waiting a few days. What is the etching that should have been done--how is it done, etc.? This could be useful in further documenting the problems (since ultimately the contractor IS going to be paying for my new floor, though probably not by their choice).

    Also can you explain more about shot blasting? You say it's more cost-effective, but how does it compare to grinding as far as time involved, how much it's going to totally mess up my house, etc.? No one's mentioned this yet but it sounds like something I should look into, especially since sealer removal will be required whether I go with more concrete staining or with tile (or something else I haven't yet considered). We're talking about 1500 sq. ft. in multiple rooms and hallways.
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Andrew Pace
      To: Green Building
      Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 5:23 PM
      Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Redoing all floors


      Non-acid stains like soy stains or polymer stains only sit on the surface and in some of the macro-pores of the concrete.  Acid stain works by chemically reacting with the free lime in the concrete and the salts in the stain, to physically alter the chemistry of the concrete, thus changing the color.  The white you see could be a white base stain, or, it could be that the concrete was never acid etched before using the sealer.  Acid etching removes the “cream” off the surface of the concrete.  This is the fine white or grey powder that will eventually dust off the surface.  Without removing the cream, any coating or topical stain will eventually peel off the surface, since its only sticking to dust.  

      Grinding and shot blasting are two different ways to achieve the same end result.  It its a large area, shot blasting will be more cost effective and will require less prep before the next coating is applied.


      Andrew Pace
      Green Design Center®  
      Waukesha, WI



      On 7/27/11 5:05 PM, "Ktot (g)" <ktottotc at gmail.com> wrote:


        I have been told water-based stain--which was used to get the mottled creative pattern that was intended (without white blooms)--does not sink into the concrete like acid-stain does. Either way, where the stain and sealer have pulled up, there's plain white. It's chalky. Numerous concrete contractors had no idea what that was, telling me my contractor must have done a white layer of stain first, which I knew was not the case. One finally pointed out it's calcium carbonate that chemically reacted to something (the diesel/propane fuel? the exterior stain that was used indoors [as I later found out]?) That makes sense to me as one gets white on the finger when rubbing those areas. The white areas are all white--the stain has completely lifted up. So it does not seem to have gone down into the concrete--unless there is more under the calcium carbonate.
         
        Also I should have mentioned earlier much of the sealer seems to have disappeared. When put down it was very shiny (as it was supposed to remain) but now in many areas there appears to be little or no sealer (this is from work done two months ago), and one contractor commented the sealer is soft (vs. it supposedly the hardest, most durable there is per my contractor who clearly misled me in numerous ways).
         
        Per the sealer tech rep, the sealer does need to be removed whether I go with concrete again or with tile. He seems to lean towards grinding to remove it. Is that the same as the shot blast you mention?




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