[Digestion] High costs of biogass plants in Norway

[JGBellHimself]

Alex, that below is both misleading and inaccurate.
And, are you primarily "selling" your services OR their product? We don't care, 
but IF you are, you should state that.

Previously, we answered a researcher's question about information sources for AD 
systems available to U.S. What we pointed out was that ONE (1) of the European 
system was high temp and One (1) other was low temp. But, both were much more 
efficient that the "RCM types" of lagoon digester systems. There is another 
system, based in Olympia WA that is even more efficient than the either of the 
two European systems.

What you forgot to say is that IF all you are looking for is the cheapest 
system, and land size is no object, AND minimizing all of the other gas, liquid 
and solid emissions are irrelevant to you - ie, quick and dirty is nice - then 
lagoon AD systems will keep you happy. As you help destroy the planet. (Oh, yes, 
we do know that is bit extreme, but Alex, more info is oft better than less, 
inaccurate info) {and, yes, we are joking, sorta; so if offended, we apologize, 
in advance}

Now, were were we..., what you also did NOT point out is that both European 
systems are highly engineered to accomplish certain goals. The high temp system 
is DESIGNED to produce the maximum usable gas output, while minimizing all of 
the other AD problems. Not perfect, but a heck of a lot better then lagoon 
systems.

The Olyberg system address more of the AD problems that the European ones, but 
might not maximize certain outputs.

What you need to ask is what do we have available for source input? Which AD 
system is the most efficient at processing that source? What do we primarily 
want to get back out of our AD system - usable/salable gas? clean water? 
fertilizer?

And, what do we NOT want to get back: smelly air, not very clean water, ammonia, 
SO2, end-solids that are NOT usable and possibly toxic.

You must be aware that using AD on poop & urine from cows, and chicks, and geese 
how they scurry..., and horses, pigs and littl bo' peep's lambs..., ends up 
leaving you with some very interesting "product". In the U.S. commercial animals 
are laced with antibiotics & pesticides.

All those wonderful little additives are NOT removed by lagoon systems. And, 
many - too? - AD systems currently simply dump the dirty liquids and solids back 
into the environment as if they have no impacts.

IF that means nothing to you - economically, environmentally, legally etc - then 
the cheapest may be just your thing.

However, IF you know that there ARE other problems that you can, and should - 
medically, legally, environmentally and economically - address, you might want 
to look a little harder at the more efficient systems.

Alex, before you take off on me, please note that we ARE aware of the work being 
done at WA State U, using funding from Paul Allen, to try to "clean up" lagoon 
systems, like those in Whatcom County in WA state. Very good work, significant 
progress. So, even your lagoons CAN be improved, substantially.

And, we are aware of all the lagoon systems that were studied, AND rejected, for 
use in King & Snohomish Counties in WA.

But, even lagoon systems must be periodically "cleaned out". What you get and 
what you do with it, are important considerations; in addition to all the other 
AD problems that have been ignored.

Now, Alex..., my middle name is Grahame, and my last name is Bell...
so, try to go a skoshi bit easy on another wee/pee scottish laddy.


________________________________
From: Alexander Eaton <alex at sistemabiobolsa.com>
To: For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion <digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Sent: Fri, December 3, 2010 12:49:56 PM
Subject: Re: [Digestion] High costs of biogass plants in Norway

HI Harold, 

I wanted to mention that Europe is dominated by insulated tank digesters, common 
in Germany, that come at a very high cost.  We have presented proposals for 
lagoon digesters that have come in literally 10 times less expensive than 
competitive bids for Euro-style systems.  I have done work with RCM-Digesters 
International, who specialize in these lagoon digesters, and have installed them 
in areas of extreme cold weather.  I am confident that these will always come in 
less expensive than the tank-type systems.  The benefit of the tanks often 
includes the use of less space (more of an issue in Europe than the U.S.), but 
that may not be an issue in Norway.  RCM would be willing to examine a project 
of this nature if it were more than just one system.  Let me know if you want me 
to facilitate.  


Best,

Alex


      
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