[Digestion] Biogas conversation rates

Wed Jan 19 15:18:11 CST 2011

Steve,
You are correct in your observation "This makes the numbers pretty outdated". The US started changing its policies 2004 when
we democrats took over more of the legislative process. The numbers started changing significantly. The Petroleum Institute has some very
different numbers for the same time period covered by Pimentel & Pimentel's book. It seems Pimentel & Pimentel's book makes some 
assumptions that do not support the facts. Also they do not agree on what is a tax detectable cost. Pimentel & Pimentel's book lists
as subsidies items the Petroleum Industry lists a tax deductible expenses. I really do not wish to defend IRS tax regulations as to which are
legitimate deductions for cost of which are "subsidies".

B

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Steve Verhey 
  To: digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org 
  Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 1:30 PM
  Subject: Re: [Digestion] Biogas conversation rates

  Regarding subsidies in the US: here is information from Table 22.3 in Pimentel & Pimentel's book Food, Energy, and Society, 3rd edition:

  energy source/subsidy (in billion $)

  Oil/11.9
  Nuclear/11.0
  Coal/8.0
  Natural gas/4.3
  Energy efficiency/1.2
  Ethanol/ >1.0

  The oil and ethanol subsidy data are from 2001 sources; other industry data are from 1993. This makes the numbers pretty outdated, but I think the point is clear: oil companies get plenty of help to harvest "free in the ground" oil. It follows that the price of petroleum energy is artificially low (the "natural" price would be the cost of goods sold + distribution + profit margin). I don't think these numbers include the cost to taxpayers of maintaining the kind of military necessary to defend oil sources and shipping routes.

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  Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 12:15:28 -0800
  From: 9watts at gmail.com
  To: digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org
  Subject: Re: [Digestion] Biogas conversation rates

  On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 12:04 PM, bingham <bingham at zekes.com> wrote:

    subsidized grains....under cut the production of corn ???? I would like to see the evidence of a subsidized grain effecting the production of corn in a third world setting. Most third world farmers, only cost, is the seed. Rain is free and the grass is free, to feed there beasts of burden is free. They do not use energy.

  Your logic is a bit tricky to follow, but here's something to ponder in relation to your notion that agriculture in the third world is (nearly) free and does not use energy.

  -----Forwarded Message----- 
  From: Earth Policy Release 
  Sent: Jan 14, 2011 2:00 AM 
  To: mcat at teleport.com 
  Subject: Earth Policy Release -- The Great Food Crisis of 2011 

        THE GREAT FOOD CRISIS OF 2011* 
        By Lester R. Brown 
        www.earth-policy.org/plan_b_updates/2011/update90

       Earth Policy Release     
        Plan B Update     
        January 14, 2011    

        As the new year begins, the price of wheat is setting an all-time high in the United Kingdom. Food riots are spreading across Algeria. Russia is importing grain to sustain its cattle herds until spring grazing begins. India is wrestling with an 18-percent annual food inflation rate, sparking protests. China is looking abroad for potentially massive quantities of wheat and corn. The Mexican government is buying corn futures to avoid unmanageable tortilla price rises. And on January 5, the U.N. Food and Agricultural organization announced that its food price index for December hit an all-time high.

        But whereas in years past, it's been weather that has caused a spike in commodities prices, now it's trends on both sides of the food supply/demand equation that are driving up prices. On the demand side, the culprits are population growth, rising affluence, and the use of grain to fuel cars. On the supply side: soil erosion, aquifer depletion, the loss of cropland to nonfarm uses, the diversion of irrigation water to cities, the plateauing of crop yields in agriculturally advanced countries, and—due to climate change —crop-withering heat waves and melting mountain glaciers and ice sheets. These climate-related trends seem destined to take a far greater toll in the future.

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