[Digestion] Biogas conversation rates

Thu Jan 20 14:14:01 CST 2011

I guess you are not going to let this go away? 
I guess you do not support the current regime????? The Obomanietes say corn ethanol is the liquid answer to replacing the oil they are shutting off. Like I said last evening, the current regime spent 7 billion last year and  is spending billions more this year to prove it is the answer.

List the actual damage "the worst oil spill in US history", caused. How many sea birds died. How much beach actually got damaged
from that seep and not natural seepage. You pushed another button assuming the propaganda you get from liberal media sources has some bases in fact.
Do you realize the dead birds you saw on CNN was the same bird shown over 100 times. Less than 90 birds were found dead from all causes during that time.
Less than 30 sea mammals were found dead and that was from all causes which included kills from being ran over by the boats trying to prove
damage. I lived for 2 years on the Gulf. We dove several days a week off the shallow water oil platforms. Thousands of gallons of crude oil and untold amounts of natural gas bubble up off the bottom of the Gulf daily from natural seeps. By some estimates the pressure under the sea floor is in the thousands of PSI. If the oil rigs had not been drilling holes for decades, that have relieved some of that pressure, the amount of oil lost during "the worst oil spill in US history", would have been minuscule by comparison. As it is many of the Universities doing the research estimate "the worst oil spill in US history", takes place about every 45 days from the natural seeps. The original holes were drilled in the areas oil was discovered coming up off the bottom.

"emissions from fossil fuel warms the planet" ok prove it!!!! Go to those you hold in high esteem and get there quotes, of what the results would be if ALL fossil fuel burning stopped today. How much cooler will we get and how many life times will it take to see this result? Last estimate I saw, it was less than 1/100th of one degree F and it would take 100 years to see even that change. I believe that scientists estimate that greenhouse gasses from natural sources, (volcanoes, geological sources and animals) far exceed all manmade sources combined.
"subsidizing clean energy" does not make it "more viable". They must take that money from some one to give it to someone else. It only creates a false economic system. That money must be paid back eventually.   How do you pick which "clean energy"
is worthy of this subsidy? You contradict your leader and say ETOH is not worthy. Is solar????? the sun goes down every day. The hazardous waste from solar panels is hundreds of times more toxic than the chemicals found in oil!!!!!!! The batteries to store solar energy are toxic and the factories that make them are subsidized. Is wind the answer???? What do we do when the wind stops????

 "I hope you will reconsider", that barrowing billions more from the Chicoms so the current regime can give it out for
"subsidizing clean energy " so the "clean energy" can turn around and by more of the Chicoms wind turbines, solar panels and clean energy
products is a false economic system, so they can loan it back. At some point the Chicoms will want more than just the interest on their money, some day all that money used for  "subsidizing clean energy" must be paid back. Where will it come from????? We will always need oil or coal or natural gas to: make tires for our subsidized electric cars, lubricating oil and grease for the gears in the subsidized wind turbines , gas to make glass and toxic rare earth metals to make subsidized solar panels, Oil to make the plastic and chemicals for the subsidized AD systems, Diesel to mine the copper to make wires to move the power from the things we are "subsidizing clean energy" to get. 

Like I said who chooses what clean energy to subsidize????? Jimmy Carter started subsidizing ETOH in the 60's. 40 years later we are subsidizing it even more
and it is less viable to day than it ever was. I am more against barrowing money to prove a point now than I ever was. The money you are talking about giving away is not your money. If it was I am sure you would be a better steward of it. The money the current regime is giving away, my kids and grand kids must pay back. In 40 or 50 years which "clean energy" will your relative tell my relative was, the wrong technology, to have spent the money on???? Now you say it was ETOH. What will it be then????

In the US the TEA party says enough is enough. T=taxed E=enough A=already. Liberal thinkers can always find a worth cause to take money away from someone to redistribute it too another. There is a bottom to the money well and I think it was hit last year but the liberals may not see it till 2012. It is time to go eat some of that "subsidized bread" for lunch. I did not bring the charger out hear to the tractor and the subsidized poisonous Lithium Ion battery in my laptop is running down. the farmer next door says "when you wrestle in the mud with a pig you never win because the pig likes the mud". I am not saying who is the pig is hear but I am willing to let this thread die now. Again!!!!!
B
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Alexander Eaton 
  To: For Discussion of Anaerobic Digestion 
  Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 9:48 AM
  Subject: Re: [Digestion] Biogas conversation rates

  Brent, 

  There is a chance we have come to an impasse.  But to be clear I agree with you on a few points:
  1.  Corn ethanol is not something I consider under "renewable energy", given that corn requires fossil fuel to produce.  
  2.  If someone gives you money for flower and cooking fuel, then yes, your bread is subsidized.

  The fact that oil rigs were shut down after the worst oil spill in US history surprises you, that you can chalk up the fact that emissions from fossil fuel warms the planet as junk science, or that subsidizing clean energy so that the technology become more viable in the future does not make sense are points that I hope you will reconsider. 

  Cheers  

  On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 8:50 PM, bingham <bingham at zekes.com> wrote:

    Steve, 
    Thanks for the brief glimmer of relief "Count me among those who look forward to the end of this thread " before you also piled on. I live in a family of tree hugging flaming liberals from my uncles to most of my brothers. I do not subscribe to the liberal belief that repeating something over and over makes it true.
    I think if you fallow the money you usually get to the truth. Find out who funds something then look into there beliefs. If is not a coincidence that the studies people and groups fund almost always aggress with their preconceived notions.
    It is obvious continuing this thread well serve no useful purpose. I am not saying you all do not believe what you are saying but who or what puts food on your
    tables.  Does cheep energy help or hurt you make a living? Does AD some how directly or indirectly fund your activities? Would "climate change' being proven 
    to be a hoax help or hurt your activities? 

    I have proven with my own money (not money from a grant, a study or some other out side source) that AD has a place with out regard for energy costs or global warming. AD can stand on its own in the bright light of day irrespective of our side influences. I do not make a living from AD in any way and so I can 
    say it with out a political ax to grind.
    It is my bed time framers get up early around hear. Must get up early and turn the auger on to feed the AD in the AM
    Good night, 
    B
      ----- Original Message ----- 
      From: Steve Verhey 
      To: digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org 
      Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 6:42 PM
      Subject: Re: [Digestion] Biogas conversation rates

      Count me among those who look forward to the end of this thread. Even so, I can't resist offering some data: http://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/IOTD/view.php?id=48574 . 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2011 17:31:30 -0800
      From: 9watts at gmail.com
      To: digestion at lists.bioenergylists.org
      Subject: Re: [Digestion] Biogas conversation rates

      Eric,
      good points all, but let's not forget that Brent believes climate change is cooked up by conspirators.

      On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 2:31 PM, bingham <bingham at zekes.com> wrote:

        ...global warming has been debunked as junk science produced 
        by a group of co conspirators paid to produce a set of data which would support an pre conceived agenda.

      On Wed, Jan 19, 2011 at 5:25 PM, Eric Buysman <ericishier at yahoo.com> wrote:

        Hence, when taking a holistic perspective, considering externalities, there is a good case to assume that fossil fuels are artificially cheap.

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    and the Biogas Wiki http://biogas.wikispaces.com/

  -- 
  Alexander Eaton
  Sistema Biobolsa
  IRRI-Mexico
  RedBioLAC

  Mex cel: (55) 11522786
  US cel: 970 275 4505

  alex at irrimexico.org
  alex at sistemabiobolsa.com

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