[Gasification] Continuing

Anand Karve adkarve at gmail.com
Wed Jul 20 07:56:22 CDT 2011


Dear Tom,
dry leaves don't yield much biogas. We get about 100 litres biogas
from a kg green leaves. They have to be macerated before introducing
them into the digester.
Yours
A.D.Karve (Nandu for you)

On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 7:20 PM, Thomas Reed <tombreed2010 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear Anand
>
> Of course, CO2.
>
> I live in Massachusetts, a heavily forested state.  There are lots of green leaves, but mostly up in the trees, so not available like Ag residues.
>
> In a few months they will fall.  Will these leaves work?
>
> ( I presume not, because the tree takes the nutrients underground before pushing off the husk.)
>
> Tom Reed
>
> Dr Thomas B Reed
> President, The Biomass Energy Foundation
> www.Woodgas.com
>
> On Jul 19, 2011, at 9:05 PM, Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Tom,
>> the right hand side of the equation should read CH4 +CO2. Secondly,
>> one can use green leaves as feedstock in a biogas plant.
>> They are always available in a tropical country like India, but may
>> not be available in winter in Ukraine. For use in winter, one grows
>> sugarbeet, which can be harvested in October and the harvested beet
>> can stay in the open throughout the winter. In Germany they use corn
>> as feedstock, but I feel that the advantage of sugarbeet lies in the
>> fact that its biomass contains less lignin than other crops.
>> Yours
>> A.D.Karve
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 4:51 AM, Thomas Reed <tombreed2010 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Dear Phillip
>>>
>>> The power generation sounds interesting.
>>>
>>> What is the feed sock for the digester?  Carbohydrates?
>>>
>>> 2 CH2O ===> CH4 + H2O.
>>>
>>> A dr, carve in India has built a small  digestor that produces all the methane needed to cook the meals.
>>>
>>> I suppose a larger digester could supply the electric power too.
>>>
>>> Keep talking...
>>>
>>> Tom Reed
>>>
>>> Dr Thomas B Reed
>>> President, The Biomass Energy Foundation
>>> www.Woodgas.com
>>>
>>> On Jul 19, 2011, at 12:03 PM, phillip manske <pdmanske at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Tom,
>>>>
>>>> Its good to hear from you.  I taught ESL in Korea for six years and
>>>> instead of coming back to the US directly, I went to Kiev and stayed
>>>> in East Europe for year.  I went to Moldova, Poland and Romania too.
>>>> I lived on the money I saved while in Korea and my Fed government
>>>> pension.  I was poor there and I didn't do much but work on a website
>>>> that was inspired by my Fed time.  I made a large Freedom of
>>>> Information Act program and I did most of the work in cafe's with free
>>>> WiFi.
>>>>
>>>> Melitopol is in the Russian half of Ukraine, I generally like the
>>>> Ukies better than the Russians but I think the women are more
>>>> attractive.   I've been to Melitopol twice already.  No one visits
>>>> Melitopol, its kind of a hole.  Anna is an ethnic Russian living in
>>>> Ukraine.
>>>>
>>>> http://khersongirls.com - that is the agency I recommend.  Consider
>>>> all of the others as scams.  I've met the owner and I've been to the
>>>> office many times.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> If you want to get involved with my "Gold" project you are welcome.
>>>> Its gonna take some money but not much.  My investor advisor says to
>>>> make the lab reactor and then the GEK scale reactor.  I think the lab
>>>> reactor will look like this...
>>>>
>>>> http://www.chemglass.com/product_view.asp?pnr=CLS-1404
>>>>
>>>> I don't want to appear as a Johnny come lately into biofuels but it
>>>> kind of looks that way.  I was an electrican in the navy a long time
>>>> ago and I said I'd return to power generation if the things were
>>>> right.  The concept is complicated, the practice is easy.  Once the
>>>> gens run, there is no work to do.  You just need to check the engines
>>>> twice a day and that takes 20 minutes max each time.  You really have
>>>> the whole day off for the next fifteen years if you get a contract.
>>>>
>>>> That's whats up.
>>>>
>>>> Phillip
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 7:31 AM, Thomas Reed <tombreed2010 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> So, do you have an office in Melitopol?  Looks like it's close to the black sea.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tom
>>>>>
>>>>> Dr Thomas B Reed
>>>>> President, The Biomass Energy Foundation
>>>>> www.Woodgas.com
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 18, 2011, at 10:25 PM, phillip manske <pdmanske at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Dr. Reed,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks for the concern.  I had to pay bills for two months and then I
>>>>>> needed some cash so I can go marriage agency dates in Ukraine.  I
>>>>>> lived in Ukraine for a year so I kinda know whats up.  I found a woman
>>>>>> there that likes me.  She looks like Meagan Fox but she has larger
>>>>>> breasts.  She sells cosmetics and lives in Melitopol.  I work next to
>>>>>> a corporate lake and the lake is feed by storm run off.  The lake has
>>>>>> some good wildlife and I have taken to  turtle rescue when the chelons
>>>>>> get stuck in the drainage pipes.  I got ten already.  I have a snapper
>>>>>> hatchling and hand sized softshell on a shelf by my desk.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's pretty cool Phil but it has nothing to with biomass.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't talk about gasifiers here because I don't know Jack.
>>>>>> Sometimes you just need to shut up and listen.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yea so I decided I should read about the matter.
>>>>>> This book is great.
>>>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Transportation-Biofuels-Production-Biodiesel-Chemistry/dp/1849730431
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I got an eCopy if you want to see the relevant material.  The methane
>>>>>> part looks way doable and in fact I'm slowly working on that.  I found
>>>>>> sciencedirect.com which has a great index and all of the papers on the
>>>>>> matter are availalbe for free at the uni library but I don't have my
>>>>>> Indiana drives lic/ID yet so its another two weeks.  The papers come
>>>>>> to $4500 if I have to pay.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I wrote an executive summary for someone at GoBig and I after I sent
>>>>>> that off they asked for an executive summary and asked a few other
>>>>>> questions.  I made a good post at GEK and I got ass kissy with Mr.
>>>>>> Mason trying to amend my earlier offences.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Whats up with you Tom?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Warmest Regards
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Phillip
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Phillip Manske
>>>>>> 195 w Puetz Rd h-114
>>>>>> Oak Creek WI, 53154
>>>>>> pmanske at afuels.net
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Alchemy Fuels Executive Summary
>>>>>> Saturday, July 16, 2011
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Energy Policy Act of 2005 has mandated that investor owned
>>>>>> utilities must provide a certain amount of the energy they provide
>>>>>> must be sourced from renewable sources.  This amount has been
>>>>>> regulated to grow both now and in the future.  To date, wind and solar
>>>>>> sources have been providing most of this energy while biomass sourced
>>>>>> energy has lagged.  Utilities have been rejecting new applications for
>>>>>> wind and solar energies while courting biomass providers as many slots
>>>>>> are still open.  Alchemy has determined a course to make low cost
>>>>>> biofuel to fulfill these requirements is a realistic and profitable
>>>>>> goal.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> After reviewing scientific literature on the matter I, (working as
>>>>>> Alchemy Fuels) have decided that a two stage reactor designed to make
>>>>>> methane is the most efficient route to a biofuel called “biogas”.
>>>>>> This method was developed early in the biofuels research efforts and
>>>>>> then abandoned in favor of ethanol and other more lucrative
>>>>>> transportation fuels.  Methane is a well founded and well functioning
>>>>>> fuel for generators designed to work with natural gas.   This process
>>>>>> is well reviewed and appreciated by the scientific community for its
>>>>>> ease use and lack of exotic requirements.   It can be described as a
>>>>>> methane digester without the required tons of manure feedstock.  The
>>>>>> research was pioneered by a scientist named Gaddy who founded a
>>>>>> company called BRI.  The process is referred as the microbial catalyst
>>>>>> cellulosic fuel pathway.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The process uses the output from gasifiers that use wood mass as a
>>>>>> feedstock.  A handful of gases are provided by the gasifier with the
>>>>>> most important being carbon monoxide and the lesser gases being
>>>>>> hydrogen, carbon dioxide and methane.  All of the gasses are used in
>>>>>> the process.  The first stage of the process uses a bacteria called p.
>>>>>> productus that uses the CO for growth and CO2 for the production of
>>>>>> acetate which is the feedstock for the second and final stage where a
>>>>>> bacteria called m. barkeri uses the acetate and hydrogen to make
>>>>>> methane.  Methane, unlike ethanol , does not need distilling which
>>>>>> saves considerable effort, energy and money.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The market for the gas or gas use comes from the aforementioned lack
>>>>>> of biomass energy providers.  Contract length is from 10 – 20 years,
>>>>>> amount of sale is typically 800 kilo watts per hour and the
>>>>>> compensation is from $.10 - $.15  per Kw hour.    Providers are
>>>>>> typically allowed to provide 24 hours a day.  Demand may vary but
>>>>>> demand is typically strong.  Biogas contracts are generally designed
>>>>>> for methane digesters but this type of process meets the legal
>>>>>> definition of biogas even without the $1 million digester.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This is a niche market but it can provide excellent returns and a
>>>>>> number of contracts can be signed simultaneously.   Sales are assured,
>>>>>> no distribution network is required.  Plants like this operate at a
>>>>>> technician level and not an engineer or scientist level.  There are
>>>>>> few critical points that may induce failure.  The required insurance
>>>>>> is difficult to get but I have found a provider and at least one work
>>>>>> around method.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Plants should be located near the biomass source to save money on
>>>>>> transportation and when the gas is made, it can be shipped at much
>>>>>> less expense to the generating facilities .   The plants will be
>>>>>> filled with wood biomass, gasifiers and vats that look like
>>>>>> microbrewery vats.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Being averse to large expenditures, I recommend a modest approach to
>>>>>> first make a five gallon reactor using bottled gas, then a system
>>>>>> using a small gasifier and then finally a system scaled to produce
>>>>>> fuel at the rate to meet the 800 kwh limit.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The described  process above is worth study and investment.  The
>>>>>> science is sound, the investment and risk is small, operating overhead
>>>>>> is very low and sales are guaranteed.  It appears margins should be
>>>>>> very wide unlike typical margins that are available to investors.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Questions may be directed to me at the email address above.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Phillip Manske
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 9:46 PM, Thomas Reed <tombreed2010 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>> Phil
>>>>>>> I haven't heard your name for.a decade or so.  What cooks in biomass?
>>>>>>> Tom Reed
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dr Thomas B Reed
>>>>>>> President, The Biomass Energy Foundation
>>>>>>> www.Woodgas.com
>>>>>>> On Jul 18, 2011, at 7:04 PM,
>>>>>>> "pbadger at bioenergyupdate.com"<pbadger at bioenergyupdate.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ***
>> Dr. A.D. Karve
>> President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)
>>
>> *Please change my email address in your records to: adkarve at gmail.com *
>>
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-- 
***
Dr. A.D. Karve
President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)

*Please change my email address in your records to: adkarve at gmail.com *




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