[Gasification] Continuing

Pannirselvam P.V pannirbr at gmail.com
Wed Jul 20 14:32:20 CDT 2011 

Dear TR

On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 8:20 AM, Thomas Reed <tombreed2010 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Dear Anand
>
> Of course, CO2.
>
> I live in Massachusetts, a heavily forested state.  There are lots of green
> leaves, but mostly up in the trees, so not available like Ag residues.
>
> In a few months they will fall.  Will these leaves work?
>
> ( I presume not, because the tree takes the nutrients underground before
> pushing off the husk.)
>

    As such the dried leaves  will not work  as the  biodegradability  is
very low .
Some  pretreatments such as composting  can make it  work,  the problem is
 all take too longer time in several week mainly due to  the cellulose is
crystaline structure , the lignin and hemicelllulose , making  the enzymatic
 bioprocess , very slow , thus you concluded  that it may not be practical

>
> Tom Reed
>
> Dr Thomas B Reed
> President, The Biomass Energy Foundation
> www.Woodgas.com
>
> On Jul 19, 2011, at 9:05 PM, Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Dear Tom,
> > the right hand side of the equation should read CH4 +CO2. Secondly,
> > one can use green leaves as feedstock in a biogas plant.
> > They are always available in a tropical country like India, but may
> > not be available in winter in Ukraine. For use in winter, one grows
> > sugarbeet, which can be harvested in October and the harvested beet
> > can stay in the open throughout the winter. In Germany they use corn
> > as feedstock, but I feel that the advantage of sugarbeet lies in the
> > fact that its biomass contains less lignin than other crops.
> > Yours
> > A.D.Karve
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 20, 2011 at 4:51 AM, Thomas Reed <tombreed2010 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> Dear Phillip
> >>
> >> The power generation sounds interesting.
> >>
> >> What is the feed sock for the digester?  Carbohydrates?
> >>
> >> 2 CH2O ===> CH4 + H2O.
> >>
> >> A dr, carve in India has built a small  digestor that produces all the
> methane needed to cook the meals.
> >>
> >> I suppose a larger digester could supply the electric power too.
> >>
> >> Keep talking...
> >>
> >> Tom Reed
> >>
> >> Dr Thomas B Reed
> >> President, The Biomass Energy Foundation
> >> www.Woodgas.com
> >>
> >> On Jul 19, 2011, at 12:03 PM, phillip manske <pdmanske at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Hi Tom,
> >>>
> >>> Its good to hear from you.  I taught ESL in Korea for six years and
> >>> instead of coming back to the US directly, I went to Kiev and stayed
> >>> in East Europe for year.  I went to Moldova, Poland and Romania too.
> >>> I lived on the money I saved while in Korea and my Fed government
> >>> pension.  I was poor there and I didn't do much but work on a website
> >>> that was inspired by my Fed time.  I made a large Freedom of
> >>> Information Act program and I did most of the work in cafe's with free
> >>> WiFi.
> >>>
> >>> Melitopol is in the Russian half of Ukraine, I generally like the
> >>> Ukies better than the Russians but I think the women are more
> >>> attractive.   I've been to Melitopol twice already.  No one visits
> >>> Melitopol, its kind of a hole.  Anna is an ethnic Russian living in
> >>> Ukraine.
> >>>
> >>> http://khersongirls.com - that is the agency I recommend.  Consider
> >>> all of the others as scams.  I've met the owner and I've been to the
> >>> office many times.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> If you want to get involved with my "Gold" project you are welcome.
> >>> Its gonna take some money but not much.  My investor advisor says to
> >>> make the lab reactor and then the GEK scale reactor.  I think the lab
> >>> reactor will look like this...
> >>>
> >>> http://www.chemglass.com/product_view.asp?pnr=CLS-1404
> >>>
> >>> I don't want to appear as a Johnny come lately into biofuels but it
> >>> kind of looks that way.  I was an electrican in the navy a long time
> >>> ago and I said I'd return to power generation if the things were
> >>> right.  The concept is complicated, the practice is easy.  Once the
> >>> gens run, there is no work to do.  You just need to check the engines
> >>> twice a day and that takes 20 minutes max each time.  You really have
> >>> the whole day off for the next fifteen years if you get a contract.
> >>>
> >>> That's whats up.
> >>>
> >>> Phillip
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 7:31 AM, Thomas Reed <tombreed2010 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>> So, do you have an office in Melitopol?  Looks like it's close to the
> black sea.
> >>>>
> >>>> Tom
> >>>>
> >>>> Dr Thomas B Reed
> >>>> President, The Biomass Energy Foundation
> >>>> www.Woodgas.com
> >>>>
> >>>> On Jul 18, 2011, at 10:25 PM, phillip manske <pdmanske at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Hi Dr. Reed,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks for the concern.  I had to pay bills for two months and then I
> >>>>> needed some cash so I can go marriage agency dates in Ukraine.  I
> >>>>> lived in Ukraine for a year so I kinda know whats up.  I found a
> woman
> >>>>> there that likes me.  She looks like Meagan Fox but she has larger
> >>>>> breasts.  She sells cosmetics and lives in Melitopol.  I work next to
> >>>>> a corporate lake and the lake is feed by storm run off.  The lake has
> >>>>> some good wildlife and I have taken to  turtle rescue when the
> chelons
> >>>>> get stuck in the drainage pipes.  I got ten already.  I have a
> snapper
> >>>>> hatchling and hand sized softshell on a shelf by my desk.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> That's pretty cool Phil but it has nothing to with biomass.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I don't talk about gasifiers here because I don't know Jack.
> >>>>> Sometimes you just need to shut up and listen.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Yea so I decided I should read about the matter.
> >>>>> This book is great.
> >>>>>
> http://www.amazon.com/Transportation-Biofuels-Production-Biodiesel-Chemistry/dp/1849730431
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I got an eCopy if you want to see the relevant material.  The methane
> >>>>> part looks way doable and in fact I'm slowly working on that.  I
> found
> >>>>> sciencedirect.com which has a great index and all of the papers on
> the
> >>>>> matter are availalbe for free at the uni library but I don't have my
> >>>>> Indiana drives lic/ID yet so its another two weeks.  The papers come
> >>>>> to $4500 if I have to pay.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I wrote an executive summary for someone at GoBig and I after I sent
> >>>>> that off they asked for an executive summary and asked a few other
> >>>>> questions.  I made a good post at GEK and I got ass kissy with Mr.
> >>>>> Mason trying to amend my earlier offences.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Whats up with you Tom?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Warmest Regards
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Phillip
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Phillip Manske
> >>>>> 195 w Puetz Rd h-114
> >>>>> Oak Creek WI, 53154
> >>>>> pmanske at afuels.net
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Alchemy Fuels Executive Summary
> >>>>> Saturday, July 16, 2011
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The Energy Policy Act of 2005 has mandated that investor owned
> >>>>> utilities must provide a certain amount of the energy they provide
> >>>>> must be sourced from renewable sources.  This amount has been
> >>>>> regulated to grow both now and in the future.  To date, wind and
> solar
> >>>>> sources have been providing most of this energy while biomass sourced
> >>>>> energy has lagged.  Utilities have been rejecting new applications
> for
> >>>>> wind and solar energies while courting biomass providers as many
> slots
> >>>>> are still open.  Alchemy has determined a course to make low cost
> >>>>> biofuel to fulfill these requirements is a realistic and profitable
> >>>>> goal.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> After reviewing scientific literature on the matter I, (working as
> >>>>> Alchemy Fuels) have decided that a two stage reactor designed to make
> >>>>> methane is the most efficient route to a biofuel called “biogas”.
> >>>>> This method was developed early in the biofuels research efforts and
> >>>>> then abandoned in favor of ethanol and other more lucrative
> >>>>> transportation fuels.  Methane is a well founded and well functioning
> >>>>> fuel for generators designed to work with natural gas.   This process
> >>>>> is well reviewed and appreciated by the scientific community for its
> >>>>> ease use and lack of exotic requirements.   It can be described as a
> >>>>> methane digester without the required tons of manure feedstock.  The
> >>>>> research was pioneered by a scientist named Gaddy who founded a
> >>>>> company called BRI.  The process is referred as the microbial
> catalyst
> >>>>> cellulosic fuel pathway.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The process uses the output from gasifiers that use wood mass as a
> >>>>> feedstock.  A handful of gases are provided by the gasifier with the
> >>>>> most important being carbon monoxide and the lesser gases being
> >>>>> hydrogen, carbon dioxide and methane.  All of the gasses are used in
> >>>>> the process.  The first stage of the process uses a bacteria called
> p.
> >>>>> productus that uses the CO for growth and CO2 for the production of
> >>>>> acetate which is the feedstock for the second and final stage where a
> >>>>> bacteria called m. barkeri uses the acetate and hydrogen to make
> >>>>> methane.  Methane, unlike ethanol , does not need distilling which
> >>>>> saves considerable effort, energy and money.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The market for the gas or gas use comes from the aforementioned lack
> >>>>> of biomass energy providers.  Contract length is from 10 – 20 years,
> >>>>> amount of sale is typically 800 kilo watts per hour and the
> >>>>> compensation is from $.10 - $.15  per Kw hour.    Providers are
> >>>>> typically allowed to provide 24 hours a day.  Demand may vary but
> >>>>> demand is typically strong.  Biogas contracts are generally designed
> >>>>> for methane digesters but this type of process meets the legal
> >>>>> definition of biogas even without the $1 million digester.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This is a niche market but it can provide excellent returns and a
> >>>>> number of contracts can be signed simultaneously.   Sales are
> assured,
> >>>>> no distribution network is required.  Plants like this operate at a
> >>>>> technician level and not an engineer or scientist level.  There are
> >>>>> few critical points that may induce failure.  The required insurance
> >>>>> is difficult to get but I have found a provider and at least one work
> >>>>> around method.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Plants should be located near the biomass source to save money on
> >>>>> transportation and when the gas is made, it can be shipped at much
> >>>>> less expense to the generating facilities .   The plants will be
> >>>>> filled with wood biomass, gasifiers and vats that look like
> >>>>> microbrewery vats.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Being averse to large expenditures, I recommend a modest approach to
> >>>>> first make a five gallon reactor using bottled gas, then a system
> >>>>> using a small gasifier and then finally a system scaled to produce
> >>>>> fuel at the rate to meet the 800 kwh limit.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The described  process above is worth study and investment.  The
> >>>>> science is sound, the investment and risk is small, operating
> overhead
> >>>>> is very low and sales are guaranteed.  It appears margins should be
> >>>>> very wide unlike typical margins that are available to investors.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Questions may be directed to me at the email address above.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Regards
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Phillip Manske
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 9:46 PM, Thomas Reed <tombreed2010 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>> Phil
> >>>>>> I haven't heard your name for.a decade or so.  What cooks in
> biomass?
> >>>>>> Tom Reed
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Dr Thomas B Reed
> >>>>>> President, The Biomass Energy Foundation
> >>>>>> www.Woodgas.com
> >>>>>> On Jul 18, 2011, at 7:04 PM,
> >>>>>> "pbadger at bioenergyupdate.com"<pbadger at bioenergyupdate.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Connected by DROID on Verizon Wireless
> >>>>>>
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > ***
> > Dr. A.D. Karve
> > President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)
> >
> > *Please change my email address in your records to: adkarve at gmail.com *
> >
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-- 
************************************************
P.V.PANNIRSELVAM
ASSOCIATE . PROF.
Research Group ,GPEC, Coordinator
Computer aided  Cost engineering

DEQ – Departamento de Engenharia Química
CT – Centro de Tecnologia / UFRN, Lagoa Nova – Natal/RN
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