[Gasification] Where is Everyone? - 4 houses off grid
Paul Anderson
psanders at ilstu.edu
Tue Jan 3 15:54:35 CST 2017
Tom M.,
The mention of 5000 hours/yr is an average of 14 hrs per day. But how
much power do they need? Minimum expectations, average, and maximum
and peak requirements are all very different. If the 4 houses want 20
kW each, that is different from power for basic LED lighting and fans in
gas heating and a refrigerator running. 5 kW max and 3 to 4 kW
sustained for 14 hours is withing reach.
What did your requester specify? Any mention of the available
biomass? In what climatic region? Summer houses in Wisconsin that
are only occupied for 4 to 8 months are different from Alaska 12 month
residences.
ANY size of operational system will find some people who will want it.
Then the question becomes the price they are willing to pay.
Paul
Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: www.drtlud.com
On 1/3/2017 1:42 PM, Tom Miles wrote:
>
> Tom,
>
> My request is technology agnostic at this point. Any style of
> pyrolysis or gasification are welcome. I’m looking for small,
> reliable, and maintainable. What manufactured gasifier system can
> deliver power to four houses in a microgrid for 5,000 hours per year?
> The fuel form and moisture is an essential part of the geometry of the
> reactor. We can make the fuel to suit. Over the years we have seen
> several small scale systems which have not gone beyond one or two
> units. Are there other suppliers, like the ones mentioned, where you
> can find systems which have operated for 5,000 hours or year or more?
> Are there gasifiers that have been integrated into microgrid systems
> with diesel, wind, or solar?
>
> Thanks
>
> Tom
>
> *From:*Gasification
> [mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] *On Behalf Of *l
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 03, 2017 8:53 AM
> *To:* gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
> *Subject:* SPAM: Re: [Gasification] Where is Everyone?
>
> Tom Miles,
> You might want to paint somewhat a more complete picture, the
> "successful" units may need to be fed less than 10% moisture wood,
> less than 3% fines, which is a rarefied wood source indeed. Most are
> also reliant on "filters" that have to be shut down and replaced
> periodically and a host of other aspects that reduce the potential in
> the market.
> A 20 kw unit by US Standards, is good for one house.
> If those who wonder what has gone on with the gasification list,
> perhaps because of the lack of innovation to reduce the narrowness of
> the feedstock, notably this list is primarily focused on downdraft
> systems, there are approaches that expand the application base and
> increase market necessary to prevent saturation at a low level.
> Energy prices or availability has repeatedly cycled gasification
> applications up and down, from coal fired "town gas" units replaced
> with natural gas, to WW II fossil fuel shortages. However, there are
> applications not subject to this cyclic effect.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Leland T. "Tom" Taylor
>
> Thermogenics Inc.
>
> +001-505-463-8422
>
> www.thermogenicx.com <http://www.thermogenicx.com>
>
> Skype: ltt.invent
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tom Miles <tmiles at trmiles.com <mailto:tmiles at trmiles.com>>
> To: 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'
> <gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org
> <mailto:gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>>
> Sent: Tue, Jan 3, 2017 9:18 am
> Subject: Re: [Gasification] Where is Everyone?
>
> I received in inquiry last week from someone looking for a microgrid
> scale gasifier to power four homes in a remote off-grid wooded area.
> What suppliers do we have for that scale?
>
> We have seen some reliable systems at a larger scale. All Power Labs
> (_http://www.allpowerlabs.com/),_ <http://www.allpowerlabs.com/%29,>
> Volter (volter.fi), Entrada (_http://www.entrade.de/_) and Spanner
> (_http://www.holz-kraft.de/en/company/102-spanner-re-2-company_) all
> seem to be selling refined units at the 20kWe+. Are there others?
>
> Tom
>
> *From:*Gasification
> [_mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org_
> <mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org?>] *On Behalf Of
> *Pete & Sheri
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 03, 2017 7:44 AM
> *To:* 'Discussion of biomass pyrolysis and gasification'
> <_gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org_
> <mailto:gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>>
> *Subject:* Re: [Gasification] Where is Everyone?
>
> Hello Doug.
>
> Re:
>
> “It's a mute point drawing the low price of gasoline into our discussions”
>
> A moot point?
>
> I was only responding to your questioning the lack of traffic to this
> forum, not its mission.
>
> Most people spend their discretionary time doing what seems most
> important to them, I think. When gasoline is USD$4.00 per gallon, the
> idea of developing or supporting cheaper alternatives rises higher
> towards the top of the to-do list.
>
> Oh- maybe you did mean “mute” point. In either case, I won’t bring it
> up again.
>
> Pete Stanaitis
>
> -----------------
>
> *From:*Gasification
> [_mailto:gasification-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org_] *On Behalf Of
> *Doug
> *Sent:* Tuesday, January 03, 2017 2:33 AM
> *To:* _gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org_
> <mailto:gasification at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [Gasification] Where is Everyone?
>
> Hi Pete,
>
> We are only as professional as our need to breath the same air.
> Because we all are at different levels of knowledge, none of us can
> know how to answer, or ask questions, due to the differing perspective
> of how our interests have "drawn us in". We all share that
> gasification has such promise for energy applications, so asking
> questions or providing answers is the reason this list was created.
>
> Yes, there have been other groups form to discuss gasification, There
> are no short cuts to reliable gasifier performance, but information
> without scrutiny can only speak for itself. This Forum and it's
> extensive collection of related information, was the first to
> recognize the need for such discussions and become available to us
> all. There never has been any restriction on who participates, and
> some very good people have shared with us particularly in the earlier
> years.
>
> It's a mute point drawing the low price of gasoline into our
> discussions relating to an alternative for fossil fuels! It's not
> about the price, but availability which can change over night, and for
> me, that means being able to be self supporting in time of need. NZ
> has had a reported 32,000 quakes this last year, plus major storms
> that destroyed electrical distribution facilities. Are any of us
> really prepared for the inconvenience when, not if, it comes?
>
> Doug Williams.
>
> On 03/01/17 12:21, Pete & Sheri wrote:
>
> Hello Doug.
>
> I view this list to be for the professional for the most part, so
> I hesitate to join in unless I have a question that I can clearly
> describe.
>
> But I think at least part of the reason for the lack of traffic is
> that there are now several other websites that cater to hobbyist
> and advanced tinkerer wood-to-electricity crowd:
>
> -Yahoo woodgas group,
>
> -Yahoo charcoal gasifier group
>
> -Wayne Keith’s driveonwood.com website
>
> -allpowerlabs.com
>
> And I am sure there are many others.
>
> In addition (although I have been flamed for even mentioning it),
> gasoline for USD$2.00 per gallon does take the edge off for many
> people.
>
> Pete Stanaitis
>
> ----------------
>
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