[Greenbuilding] Reducing Mold
action jackson
benigncraft at gmail.com
Mon Nov 8 10:44:19 CST 2010
four conditions for mold growt to occur
1.) presence of mold spores
2.) presence of nutrient base for the mold
3.) Temp between 40 and 100F
4.) Surface RH above approx70%
easiest to control?- Surface RH
how? squeegee, ventilate, drainage,etc. and shower less!
cheers,
joshua thornton!
On Mon, Nov 8, 2010 at 10:07 AM, <
greenbuilding-request at lists.bioenergylists.org> wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Concrete Fertilizer Staining (RT)
> 2. Re: ERV Issues (Steven Tjiang)
> 3. Re: Concrete Fertilizer Staining (Clarke Olsen)
> 4. Re: Concrete Fertilizer Staining (Clarke Olsen)
> 5. Re: Reducing mold (Sacie Lambertson)
> 6. Re: Reducing mold (Bob Klahn)
> 7. Re: Reducing mold (Andrew Golkin)
> 8. Re: Reducing mold (RT)
> 9. Re: Reducing mold (Michael O'Brien)
> 10. Re: Reducing mold (JOHN SALMEN)
> 11. Re: Reducing mold (Lynelle Hamilton)
> 12. Re: Reducing mold (Sacie Lambertson)
> 13. Fwd: pool heating (Gi Broucke)
> 14. Re: Reducing mold (Bob Klahn)
> 15. Re: pool heating (RT)
> 16. Re: Reducing mold (JOHN SALMEN)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2010 15:01:28 -0500
> From: RT <ArchiLogic at yahoo.ca>
> To: greenbuilding at bioenergylists.org
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Concrete Fertilizer Staining
> Message-ID: <op.vltgkqw84f5a3n at owner-b0bdc4ac6>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed;
> delsp=yes
>
> On Mon, 01 Nov 2010 17:16:52 -0400, McDonald, David Joseph
> <davidmcdonald at neo.tamu.edu> wrote:
>
> > I am doing some experimenting with fertilizer staining
>
> Well, my guess is that this "fertiliser" could be either ferrous sulphate
> (or ferrous nitrate) or cow or pig poo ... all of which would stain
> concrete.
>
> And I think that with all of the above materials, it'd be best to apply to
> the concrete before it is dry (ie ASAP after finish trowelling.)
>
> If I were doing it, I'd lay down some salvaged polyethylene sheet (taking
> some care to seal the seams) ASAP after the above step and then put down
> some scrap sheet goods (plywood or OSB or even drywall cut-offs) to
> protect both the poly and the green concrete) and leave moisture/impact
> barrier down for at least 3 weeks (a month or more would be preferable) so
> that the cement will have access to the moisture necessary for full
> hydration over the curing period.
>
> No scuff marks and dirt to clean up, better quality concrete (provided
> that the concrete was placed and finished properly as well.)
>
>
> --
> === * ===
> Rob Tom
> Kanata, Ontario, Canada
> < A r c h i L o g i c at Y a h o o dot c a >
> manually winnow the chaff from my edress if you hit "reply"
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 13:51:36 -0800
> From: Steven Tjiang <steve at tjiang.org>
> To: elitalking <elitalking at rockbridge.net>
> Cc: greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] ERV Issues
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTi=FL1kbnfaJ7XXVFH3GtQRpUVmBmCZSBStzPi6B at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>
> You want to keep the exhaust and fresh air intake runs short to minimize
> fan
> power and preferably out of the conditioned space as they will have air of
> (approx) outside temps. If you must run them long through conditioned
> space
> you'd want to insulate.
>
> ---- Steve (KZ6LSD)
>
>
> On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 11:35 AM, elitalking <elitalking at rockbridge.net
> >wrote:
>
> > Thanks for your input on HRV versus ERV. I really enjoyed the
> discussion
> > that followed concerning the health impact of humidity. I gained new
> > knowledge from that series.
> >
> >
> >
> > Steven Tjiang <steve at tjiang.org> writes:
> >
> > Your analysis seem correct for your climate. If there is no active
> source
> > of moisture removal an ERV would only delay the inevitable equalization
> of
> > humidity between the external and the internal.
> >
> >
> >
> > I have decided to install ERV, even though I am not immediately planning
> to
> > install the active moisture removal to take advantage of the ERV?s
> ability
> > to preserve that value. I decided to preserve the option of installing
> > active moisture removal such as a mini-split heat pump. Living in a
> > wooded location, with upgraded thermal efficiency from tighter and higher
> > conductive insulation, I have the potential for grid tied photovoltaic
> array
> > in field where there is full sunshine to produce the electricity credits
> in
> > summer to pay for heat in winter.
> >
> >
> >
> > The next issue what ERV to use. My house is small. Using ASHRAE formula
> > for required ventilation = (.01cfm/sf x Area(sf)) + 7.5cfm/occupant x
> > #occupants), I only need 22cfm.
> >
> >
> >
> > Is there a source of information for comparing the performance of various
> > manufacturers and models?
> >
> >
> >
> > Efficiency of recovery and reliability are important factors.
> Rcomendations
> > will be appreciated.
> >
> >
> >
> > I am considering
> >
> > * Fanteck *5504.153 *SE 704N Compact ERV
> >
> > * Panasonic ERV FV-04VE1
> >
> > * Renew air model to be determined.
> >
> >
> >
> > I spoke with an engineer recently that recommended Renew Air Energy
> > Recovery Flat Plate HX. He told me that some ERV?s with desicant wheels
> > have leakage between air flows and maintenance issues caused by bearing
> and
> > seal of wheel. The ERV he recommended has some different method of
> > transferring humidity that flows over plates.
> >
> >
> >
> > I have an L shaped 36?x26?house with long leg 10?wide and short leg
> > 24?wide. I am looking at installing HRV near north wall in area common
> to
> > both legs so a straight 4? duct can deliver fresh air to opposite side of
> > each leg. A parallel duct on one of the legs would deliver exhaust air
> to
> > South side for plenty of separation between inlet and outlet. Is there a
> > disadvantage for having the exhaust duct going 20? through conditioned
> > space? Would it be advantage to have the long leg be the outdoor air
> > supply instead. I could send exhaust air out North side near inlet, but
> > then continue to open end to achieve the separation needed instead of
> > crossing the house. I would like to use PVC pipe to insure tightness.
> >
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 17:44:05 -0500
> From: Clarke Olsen <colsen at fairpoint.net>
> To: greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Cc: greenbuilding at bioenergylists.org
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Concrete Fertilizer Staining
> Message-ID: <2AC606D1-64A1-4533-A5C1-7F8271E67E99 at fairpoint.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
> RT is right. And don't forget cardboard for floor protection: big
> sheets are free at the right dumpster. Easy to fit, easy to recycle.
> Clarke Olsen
> 373 route 203
> Spencertown, NY 12165
> USA
> 518-392-4640
> colsen at fairpoint.net
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 7, 2010, at 3:01 PM, RT wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 01 Nov 2010 17:16:52 -0400, McDonald, David Joseph
> > <davidmcdonald at neo.tamu.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> I am doing some experimenting with fertilizer staining
> >
> > Well, my guess is that this "fertiliser" could be either ferrous
> > sulphate (or ferrous nitrate) or cow or pig poo ... all of which
> > would stain concrete.
> >
> > And I think that with all of the above materials, it'd be best to
> > apply to the concrete before it is dry (ie ASAP after finish
> > trowelling.)
> >
> > If I were doing it, I'd lay down some salvaged polyethylene sheet
> > (taking some care to seal the seams) ASAP after the above step and
> > then put down some scrap sheet goods (plywood or OSB or even
> > drywall cut-offs) to protect both the poly and the green concrete)
> > and leave moisture/impact barrier down for at least 3 weeks (a
> > month or more would be preferable) so that the cement will have
> > access to the moisture necessary for full hydration over the curing
> > period.
> >
> > No scuff marks and dirt to clean up, better quality concrete
> > (provided that the concrete was placed and finished properly as well.)
> >
> >
> > --
> > === * ===
> > Rob Tom
> > Kanata, Ontario, Canada
> > < A r c h i L o g i c at Y a h o o dot c a >
> > manually winnow the chaff from my edress if you hit "reply"
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
> > aroundhttp://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Greenbuilding mailing list
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > Greenbuilding at bioenergylists.org
> >
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/
> > greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 17:44:05 -0500
> From: Clarke Olsen <colsen at fairpoint.net>
> To: greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Cc: greenbuilding at bioenergylists.org
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Concrete Fertilizer Staining
> Message-ID: <2AC606D1-64A1-4533-A5C1-7F8271E67E99 at fairpoint.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed
>
> RT is right. And don't forget cardboard for floor protection: big
> sheets are free at the right dumpster. Easy to fit, easy to recycle.
> Clarke Olsen
> 373 route 203
> Spencertown, NY 12165
> USA
> 518-392-4640
> colsen at fairpoint.net
>
>
>
>
> On Nov 7, 2010, at 3:01 PM, RT wrote:
>
> > On Mon, 01 Nov 2010 17:16:52 -0400, McDonald, David Joseph
> > <davidmcdonald at neo.tamu.edu> wrote:
> >
> >> I am doing some experimenting with fertilizer staining
> >
> > Well, my guess is that this "fertiliser" could be either ferrous
> > sulphate (or ferrous nitrate) or cow or pig poo ... all of which
> > would stain concrete.
> >
> > And I think that with all of the above materials, it'd be best to
> > apply to the concrete before it is dry (ie ASAP after finish
> > trowelling.)
> >
> > If I were doing it, I'd lay down some salvaged polyethylene sheet
> > (taking some care to seal the seams) ASAP after the above step and
> > then put down some scrap sheet goods (plywood or OSB or even
> > drywall cut-offs) to protect both the poly and the green concrete)
> > and leave moisture/impact barrier down for at least 3 weeks (a
> > month or more would be preferable) so that the cement will have
> > access to the moisture necessary for full hydration over the curing
> > period.
> >
> > No scuff marks and dirt to clean up, better quality concrete
> > (provided that the concrete was placed and finished properly as well.)
> >
> >
> > --
> > === * ===
> > Rob Tom
> > Kanata, Ontario, Canada
> > < A r c h i L o g i c at Y a h o o dot c a >
> > manually winnow the chaff from my edress if you hit "reply"
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection
> > aroundhttp://mail.yahoo.com
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Greenbuilding mailing list
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > Greenbuilding at bioenergylists.org
> >
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/
> > greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 18:22:40 -0600
> From: Sacie Lambertson <sacie.lambertson at gmail.com>
> To: "Michael O'Brien" <obrien at hevanet.com>
> Cc: Greenbuilding <Greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Reducing mold
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTi=L1iA3fw5paUd1SaiRFSdCW8O4aQsxE4sWts4D at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> *From Mike O'B; Are you thinking about ways to reduce the mold?
> *
> Indeed, I would love something easy to reduce the black stuff that appears
> in our shower. Certainly it is enough of a problem here in relatively
> humid
> NE Kansas that there are loads of products sold in the stores to get rid of
> it. A good spray of a vinegar solution helps, as does clorox. However,
> the
> water from our bathroom goes straight outside into a small running-
> downhill-gray-water trench, so using clorox isn't so great.
>
> I'm in fact looking for a solution that doesn't exist. A good scrubing
> lasts a long time. The walk-in shower is 3'x5', not a stall at all. The
> room in which it lives is large for a bathroom; in the winter the ambient
> temp is rather cool so I would love to enclose the shower area like the
> Sunfrost site suggests but I'm afraid I would only be asking for more mold
> problems.
>
> Wonder how the Turkish bath folks keep mold out?
>
> Sacie
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> >
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2010 19:49:08 -0500
> From: Bob Klahn <Home-NRG at dnaco.net>
> To: greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Reducing mold
> Message-ID: <4CD74904.8070207 at dnaco.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
>
> Sacie,
>
> There are some newer proprietary mildicides used in commercial
> remediation after flooding or other major water/mold damage.
> I haven't tried any of them and they are probably hard to get,
> especially on single residential scale.
>
> On most surfaces (substrates), chlorine bleach solution is unnecessary
> overkill; toxic for the environment and, in many of the "easy"
> applications, toxic to the user. It will not penetrate into any porous
> substrate to "kill" more than the surface bloom.
>
> A rag or sponge, dampened - not wet - with a solution of warm water and
> any mild surfactant (dish washing detergent works well). Only enough
> surfactant to break the surface tension of the water - no suds needed.
>
> Wipe from the top down, clearing away the surface bloom, then wring in
> the bucket or basin, leaving the mold in the water.
> Dry as rapidly as possible - by blowing (room temperature or sightly
> warmer) air across the surface (heat will drive the moisture deeper into
> the material and slow real drying. Instead, hot air or radiant heat can
> create an illusory surface drying.
>
> No panaceas that I know of. Most of the things toxic to mold are also
> toxic to us - and other living critters.
>
> Bob Klahn
>
> On 11/7/2010 7:22 PM, Sacie Lambertson wrote:
> > /From Mike O'B; Are you thinking about ways to reduce the mold?
> > /
> > Indeed, I would love something easy to reduce the black stuff that
> > appears in our shower. Certainly it is enough of a problem here in
> > relatively humid NE Kansas that there are loads of products sold in
> > the stores to get rid of it. A good spray of a vinegar solution
> > helps, as does clorox. However, the water from our bathroom goes
> > straight outside into a small running- downhill-gray-water trench, so
> > using clorox isn't so great.
> >
> > I'm in fact looking for a solution that doesn't exist. A good
> > scrubing lasts a long time. The walk-in shower is 3'x5', not a stall
> > at all. The room in which it lives is large for a bathroom; in the
> > winter the ambient temp is rather cool so I would love to enclose the
> > shower area like the Sunfrost site suggests but I'm afraid I would
> > only be asking for more mold problems.
> >
> > Wonder how the Turkish bath folks keep mold out?
> >
> > Sacie
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Greenbuilding mailing list
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > Greenbuilding at bioenergylists.org
> >
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> >
> >
> > No virus found in this incoming message.
> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> > Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3243 - Release Date: 11/07/10
> 19:34:00
> >
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 7
> Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 20:29:55 -0500
> From: Andrew Golkin <agolk2 at gmail.com>
> To: Bob Klahn <Home-NRG at dnaco.net>
> Cc: "greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org"
> <greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Reducing mold
> Message-ID: <-4936232367639690917 at unknownmsgid>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Google microban. Order it from Jondon.com it's about $30 per gallon.
> Benefect is a more environmentally friendly solution as well.
>
> Andrew Golkin
> Director of Emergency Services
> Paul Davis Restoration & Remodeling of Suburban Virginia
> 703-335-2424 Fax 703-361-1013
> www.pdrvirginia.com
>
> On Nov 7, 2010, at 7:49 PM, Bob Klahn <Home-NRG at dnaco.net> wrote:
>
> Sacie,
>
> There are some newer proprietary mildicides used in commercial remediation
> after flooding or other major water/mold damage.
> I haven't tried any of them and they are probably hard to get, especially
> on single residential scale.
>
> On most surfaces (substrates), chlorine bleach solution is unnecessary
> overkill; toxic for the environment and, in many of the "easy"
> applications,
> toxic to the user. It will not penetrate into any porous substrate to
> "kill" more than the surface bloom.
>
> A rag or sponge, dampened - not wet - with a solution of warm water and
> any
> mild surfactant (dish washing detergent works well). Only enough
> surfactant
> to break the surface tension of the water - no suds needed.
>
> Wipe from the top down, clearing away the surface bloom, then wring in the
> bucket or basin, leaving the mold in the water.
> Dry as rapidly as possible - by blowing (room temperature or sightly
> warmer)
> air across the surface (heat will drive the moisture deeper into the
> material and slow real drying. Instead, hot air or radiant heat can create
> an illusory surface drying.
>
> No panaceas that I know of. Most of the things toxic to mold are also
> toxic
> to us - and other living critters.
>
> Bob Klahn
>
> On 11/7/2010 7:22 PM, Sacie Lambertson wrote:
>
> *From Mike O'B; Are you thinking about ways to reduce the mold?
> *
> Indeed, I would love something easy to reduce the black stuff that appears
> in our shower. Certainly it is enough of a problem here in relatively
> humid
> NE Kansas that there are loads of products sold in the stores to get rid of
> it. A good spray of a vinegar solution helps, as does clorox. However,
> the
> water from our bathroom goes straight outside into a small running-
> downhill-gray-water trench, so using clorox isn't so great.
>
> I'm in fact looking for a solution that doesn't exist. A good scrubing
> lasts a long time. The walk-in shower is 3'x5', not a stall at all. The
> room in which it lives is large for a bathroom; in the winter the ambient
> temp is rather cool so I would love to enclose the shower area like the
> Sunfrost site suggests but I'm afraid I would only be asking for more mold
> problems.
>
> Wonder how the Turkish bath folks keep mold out?
>
> Sacie
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Greenbuilding mailing list
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email
> addressGreenbuilding at bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web
> pagehttp://
> lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3243 - Release Date:
> 11/07/10 19:34:00
>
>
> <Home-NRG.vcf>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Greenbuilding mailing list
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> Greenbuilding at bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2010 21:44:50 -0500
> From: RT <ArchiLogic at yahoo.ca>
> To: GBioEL <greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Reducing mold
> Message-ID: <op.vlty801w4f5a3n at owner-b0bdc4ac6>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed;
> delsp=yes
>
> On Sun, 07 Nov 2010 19:22:40 -0500, Sacie Lambertson
> <sacie.lambertson at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> MOB wrote:
> >> Are you thinking about ways to reduce the mold?
> > Indeed, I would love something easy to reduce the black stuff that
> > appears
>
> Sacie;
>
> My guess is, and it is just a guess, that if you were to install a
> smooth-surfaced material (ie something that drains and dries quickly ie
> glass sheet or tile, polished stone, porcelain tile) over the stucco ...
> or ground/polished the stucco to a high-gloss finish (ie like tadelak),
> the potential for mould growth would be reduced muchly.
>
> Squeegeeing the polished surface after each use would probably help too.
>
> And if that doesn't work, move the shower outside and into the sunlight.
> (You like sleeping with the windows open in winter. Right ? So showering
> outside in the middle of winter shouldn't be a problem. Nyuk,nyuk,nyuk.)
>
>
> --
> === * ===
> Rob Tom
> Kanata, Ontario, Canada
> < A r c h i L o g i c at Y a h o o dot c a >
> manually winnow the chaff from my edress if you hit "reply"
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 9
> Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 19:32:51 -0800
> From: "Michael O'Brien" <obrien at hevanet.com>
> To: Sacie Lambertson <sacie.lambertson at gmail.com>
> Cc: Greenbuilding <Greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Reducing mold
> Message-ID: <513154D0-529F-47AC-B9A4-A370719E67BE at hevanet.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Hi, Sacie--
>
> Hydrogen peroxide sprayed on the wall will kill mold and is harmless to you
> and your graywater. If you wipe down the stucco surfaces, suggest wetting
> them first so mold spores aren't released into the air.
>
> A longer term solution in a humid climate might be dehumidifying the space.
> They are somewhat noisy but can do a good job of drying out a room.
>
> Best,
>
> Mike O'Brien
>
>
> On Nov 7, 2010, at 4:22 PM, Sacie Lambertson wrote:
>
> > From Mike O'B; Are you thinking about ways to reduce the mold?
> >
> > Indeed, I would love something easy to reduce the black stuff that
> appears in our shower. Certainly it is enough of a problem here in
> relatively humid NE Kansas that there are loads of products sold in the
> stores to get rid of it. A good spray of a vinegar solution helps, as does
> clorox. However, the water from our bathroom goes straight outside into a
> small running- downhill-gray-water trench, so using clorox isn't so great.
> >
> > I'm in fact looking for a solution that doesn't exist. A good scrubing
> lasts a long time. The walk-in shower is 3'x5', not a stall at all. The
> room in which it lives is large for a bathroom; in the winter the ambient
> temp is rather cool so I would love to enclose the shower area like the
> Sunfrost site suggests but I'm afraid I would only be asking for more mold
> problems.
> >
> > Wonder how the Turkish bath folks keep mold out?
> >
> > Sacie
> >
> >
>
> Mike O'Brien Photography
> 1905 N Alberta Street
> Portland, Oregon 97217
>
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 10
> Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 19:38:27 -0800
> From: "JOHN SALMEN" <terrain at shaw.ca>
> To: <ArchiLogic at chaffyahoo.ca>, "'GBioEL'"
> <greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Reducing mold
> Message-ID: <000701cb7ef6$67e05200$c300a8c0 at JOHN>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> I like the question about Turkish baths. The stucco is lime based so has
> some resistance in offering little food and some anti-fungal but a bathing
> area quickly accumulates both the food and the moisture.
>
> Vinegar and similar caustic materials will have some affect but will also
> eat into the finishes to provide yet more area for food and moisture to
> rest. Essentially you want to do the opposite and increase the polish and
> smoothness of the surface.
>
> The smoothness and hardness of a surface is a benefit for basic washing of
> surfaces - and the Rob mentioned tadelak which is essentially a very fine
> lime stucco with stone fines that can be polished and burnished very smooth
> for water resistance. Soaps and waxes are often used to complete the finish
> which can offer both additional water resistance as well as some
> anti-microbial benefit.
>
> As for mildewcides within a shower or bathing area we often forget the
> basics which is copper, silver, zinc. These can be sacrificial cleansers if
> you can live with the precipipate stains. I have an outdoor shower on a
> concrete deck with exposed copper plumbing and the shower are is quite free
> of algae which seems to love the rest of the deck - despite the sunshine.
>
> JOHN SALMEN ENVIRONMENTAL DESIGN
> 4465 UPHILL RD,. DUNCAN, B.C. CANADA, V9L 6M7
> PH 250 748 7672 FAX 250 748 7612 CELL 250 246 8541
> terrain at shaw.ca
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: greenbuilding-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
> [mailto:greenbuilding-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of RT
> Sent: November 7, 2010 6:45 PM
> To: GBioEL
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Reducing mold
>
> On Sun, 07 Nov 2010 19:22:40 -0500, Sacie Lambertson
> <sacie.lambertson at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> MOB wrote:
> >> Are you thinking about ways to reduce the mold?
> > Indeed, I would love something easy to reduce the black stuff that
> > appears
>
> Sacie;
>
> My guess is, and it is just a guess, that if you were to install a
> smooth-surfaced material (ie something that drains and dries quickly ie
> glass sheet or tile, polished stone, porcelain tile) over the stucco ...
> or ground/polished the stucco to a high-gloss finish (ie like tadelak),
> the potential for mould growth would be reduced muchly.
>
> Squeegeeing the polished surface after each use would probably help too.
>
> And if that doesn't work, move the shower outside and into the sunlight.
> (You like sleeping with the windows open in winter. Right ? So showering
> outside in the middle of winter shouldn't be a problem. Nyuk,nyuk,nyuk.)
>
>
> --
> === * ===
> Rob Tom
> Kanata, Ontario, Canada
> < A r c h i L o g i c at Y a h o o dot c a >
> manually winnow the chaff from my edress if you hit "reply"
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Greenbuilding mailing list
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
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>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
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> gylists.org
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 11
> Date: Sun, 07 Nov 2010 23:14:07 -0500
> From: Lynelle Hamilton <lynelle at lahamilton.com>
> To: Bob Klahn <Home-NRG at dnaco.net>, Greenbuilding
> <greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Reducing mold
> Message-ID: <4CD7790F.9000204 at lahamilton.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
>
> I concur with the bleach. Concrobium seems to work well for me.
>
> Lynelle
>
> On 07/11/2010 19:49, Bob Klahn wrote:
> > Sacie,
> >
> > There are some newer proprietary mildicides used in commercial
> > remediation after flooding or other major water/mold damage.
> > I haven't tried any of them and they are probably hard to get,
> > especially on single residential scale.
> >
> > On most surfaces (substrates), chlorine bleach solution is unnecessary
> > overkill; toxic for the environment and, in many of the "easy"
> > applications, toxic to the user. It will not penetrate into any
> > porous substrate to "kill" more than the surface bloom.
> >
> > A rag or sponge, dampened - not wet - with a solution of warm water
> > and any mild surfactant (dish washing detergent works well). Only
> > enough surfactant to break the surface tension of the water - no suds
> > needed.
> >
> > Wipe from the top down, clearing away the surface bloom, then wring in
> > the bucket or basin, leaving the mold in the water.
> > Dry as rapidly as possible - by blowing (room temperature or sightly
> > warmer) air across the surface (heat will drive the moisture deeper
> > into the material and slow real drying. Instead, hot air or radiant
> > heat can create an illusory surface drying.
> >
> > No panaceas that I know of. Most of the things toxic to mold are also
> > toxic to us - and other living critters.
> >
> > Bob Klahn
> >
> > On 11/7/2010 7:22 PM, Sacie Lambertson wrote:
> >> /From Mike O'B; Are you thinking about ways to reduce the mold?
> >> /
> >> Indeed, I would love something easy to reduce the black stuff that
> >> appears in our shower. Certainly it is enough of a problem here in
> >> relatively humid NE Kansas that there are loads of products sold in
> >> the stores to get rid of it. A good spray of a vinegar solution
> >> helps, as does clorox. However, the water from our bathroom goes
> >> straight outside into a small running- downhill-gray-water trench, so
> >> using clorox isn't so great.
> >>
> >> I'm in fact looking for a solution that doesn't exist. A good
> >> scrubing lasts a long time. The walk-in shower is 3'x5', not a stall
> >> at all. The room in which it lives is large for a bathroom; in the
> >> winter the ambient temp is rather cool so I would love to enclose the
> >> shower area like the Sunfrost site suggests but I'm afraid I would
> >> only be asking for more mold problems.
> >>
> >> Wonder how the Turkish bath folks keep mold out?
> >>
> >> Sacie
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Greenbuilding mailing list
> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> >> Greenbuilding at bioenergylists.org
> >>
> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >>
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >> Checked by AVG -www.avg.com
> >> Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3243 - Release Date: 11/07/10
> 19:34:00
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Greenbuilding mailing list
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > Greenbuilding at bioenergylists.org
> >
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> --
> Effective immediately, please use the following e-mail address to reach
> me: lynelle at lahamilton.com
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 12
> Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2010 22:24:06 -0600
> From: Sacie Lambertson <sacie.lambertson at gmail.com>
> To: Rob Tom <ArchiLogic at yahoo.ca>
> Cc: GBioEL <greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Reducing mold
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTik_UYDmKuUhN+T+Zy3motUkan0tshifNBrwkLoT at mail.gmail.com<AANLkTik_UYDmKuUhN%2BT%2BZy3motUkan0tshifNBrwkLoT at mail.gmail.com>
> >
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> YES, that is EXACTLY what I thought, something smooth, like tile. My guess
> too but I bet it might be the solution. That stucco in its millions of
> nooks and crannies can harbor yucky warm mold producing nasties.
>
> What a memory you have Rob! Yep, cold cold in the winter, but under heaps
> of down, so warm warm nonetheless. But showering in that set up---come on,
> don't be ridiculous!
>
> OTOH, hydrogen peroxide is a ready solution for now. I'll try that.
> Thanks
> Mike.
>
> (We use a dehumidifier in our basement storage area. Doubles our
> electrical
> bill; not good)
>
> I'll check out tadelak too, a new term to me.
>
> As for simply wiping, well I spent a lot of today trying to 'clean' some
> new
> wood on a new project of the black mildew/mold/fungus that is spreading.
> Wiping didn't do it, 120 grit sanding didn't do it, clorox didn't, nor did
> vinegar. Tomorrow I'll try something else. Want to get it clean again
> then
> will tackle the job with a urethane to keep the black stuff from
> reappearing.
>
> Thanks to all of you for your suggestions. What a great gang out there.
>
> Cheers, Sacie
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 13
> Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 15:23:23 +0200
> From: Gi Broucke <gbroucke at gmail.com>
> To: greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: [Greenbuilding] Fwd: pool heating
> Message-ID:
> <AANLkTin_FeMG2UnfptbVk7C9ZLz17F=0HiAdR7pzc7bX at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>
> Hi
>
> Mea culpa, I know pools and pool heating are not the most sustainable of
> resource uses, but living in Harare, Zimbabwe, with its challenges... and
> renting a house that happens to have a pool, I intend to enjoy it for most
> of the year, and right now I miss out on 3-4 months.
>
> I had considered a roof collector for the pool but it's too expensive so I
> want to try a cheap solution. An insulating pool cover is an option - I am
> looking to find one here. But I thought of attaching a polyethylene pipe of
> 100m or so to my pump outlet and allow it to float on top of the pool in a
> spiral - with a weight attached to the outlet.
>
> Can anyone tell me if I am likely to gain the 5?C or so that I would
> target?
>
> In September-October and May-June temperatures here are around 13? (night)
> and 26? (day) with at least 8 hours sunlight. The pool is in full sun from
> about 9am and gets to 18-20?. If we have power I run the circulation pump
> from 10-13h. 100m of a 3cm diameter pipe would have a surface of around 3
> sqm. How do I assess how much this can heat a 35000 litre pool?
>
> Thanks
> Gi
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 14
> Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2010 08:40:46 -0500
> From: Bob Klahn <Home-NRG at dnaco.net>
> To: greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Reducing mold
> Message-ID: <4CD7FDDE.4030206 at dnaco.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; Format="flowed"
>
> Sacie,
>
> For the new wood that's moldy, you can try a water solution of sodium
> octoborate (trade named BoraCare). It soaks into the wood and is a mold
> inhibitor - not a mildicide. Pest control companies use it since it
> also deters termites. Since it is water borne, it can leach out if the
> wood is later saturated, but is otherwise stable.
>
> Urethane should exclude new moisture, just be sure the wood is dry all
> the way through (long moisture probe) before applying BoraCare and
> urethane.
>
> Perhaps best is the very low toxicity. On the other hand it is pricey.
>
> Bob Klahn
>
> On 11/7/2010 11:24 PM, Sacie Lambertson wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > As for simply wiping, well I spent a lot of today trying to 'clean'
> > some new wood on a new project of the black mildew/mold/fungus that is
> > spreading. Wiping didn't do it, 120 grit sanding didn't do it, clorox
> > didn't, nor did vinegar. Tomorrow I'll try something else. Want to
> > get it clean again then will tackle the job with a urethane to keep
> > the black stuff from reappearing.
> >
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 15
> Date: Mon, 08 Nov 2010 10:05:14 -0500
> From: RT <ArchiLogic at yahoo.ca>
> To: greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] pool heating
> Message-ID: <op.vluxi0iu4f5a3n at owner-b0bdc4ac6>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed;
> delsp=yes
>
> On Mon, 08 Nov 2010 08:23:23 -0500, Gi Broucke <gbroucke at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I thought of attaching a polyethylene pipe of 100m or so to my pump
> > outlet and allow it to float on top of the pool in a spiral - with a
> > weight attached to the outlet.
>
> If one has a look at an aerial photograph of many of the neighbourhoods in
> Ottawa-Gatineau, it's quite surprising (to me anyway) to see that even in
> the urban area where the houses are cheek by jowl, there's a swimming pool
> in almost every backyard and this being MooseLand, you may be assured that
> every one of them is being heated.
>
> A common strategy for DIYers is to simply put a 30m-or-so coil of iPEX
> pipe on the (usually asphalt)shingled roof of
> either the house or garage or shed as a solar heater.
>
> One of my neighbour's wives, appalled by the energy costs for the pool
> heater went to Costco and bought one of their "solar pool heaters" that
> looks sort of like those ribbed vinyl hall runners you used to see, with
> dinkly little water channels in the little ribs.
>
> My neighbour, who isn't really the DIY sort but makes valiant attempts at
> it nonetheless, dutifully hooked hp the Costco "solar heater" to the
> pool's plumbing, and laying the collector on an equator facing slope.
>
> I think that it was about the next day, they returned home to find that
> one of the plastic fittings on the end of the hall runner had burst ...
> and the hall runner having been placed lower than the above-ground pool,
> resulted in all of the water draining out of the pool and into the soil
> adjacent to the house foundation.
>
> D'oh!
>
> Neighbour pulled out the caulking gun and some PL ### construction
> adhesive, gunked-up the re-assembled fitting, bought another tanker
> truck-full of water ... and the next day, after the plumbing fitting burst
> again, repeated the process.
>
> Eventually, with clods of the repeated construction adhesive applications
> and additions of gear clamps, the leaking was slowed to a trickle instead
> of catastrophic bursts.
>
> But then one day during a windy spell, the wind picked up the hall runner,
> flipped it over and the "fixed" fitting burst again.
>
> Fortunately, winter is making signs of coming round so the pool is "closed
> for the season".
>
> Whereas yachts are big vessels into which one pours an endless stream of
> cash, swimming pools are big holes into which one pours an endless stream
> of resources (including cash).
>
>
> --
> === * ===
> Rob Tom
> Kanata, Ontario, Canada
> < A r c h i L o g i c at Y a h o o dot c a >
> manually winnow the chaff from my edress if you hit "reply"
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 16
> Date: Mon, 8 Nov 2010 07:07:02 -0800
> From: "JOHN SALMEN" <terrain at shaw.ca>
> To: "'Bob Klahn'" <Home-NRG at dnaco.net>,
> <greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Reducing mold
> Message-ID: <003401cb7f56$999c1850$c300a8c0 at JOHN>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Use a similar mix in wood boat work and stabilizing spaulting. BoraCare is
> basically a mix of ethylene glycol, borax and boric acid (or at least that
> is the recipe I have used). The borates can affect glue joints so have also
> used straight glycol (which is pretty common in wood boat maintenance).
>
> The glycol opens pores in the wood allowing it to penetrate deeply
> (carrying
> the borates in as well). The borates react with water to form a hydrogen
> peroxide making it affective as a fungicide. It will leach out and it is a
> salt so can precipitate and interfere with finishes. Urethane films are
> waterproof except where they crack and blister (especially at joints which
> seem to always blacken or whiten on urethane covered windows)- so water
> penetration gets concentrated. I prefer tung oil which is an antimicrobial
> but also penetrates deeply into the wood
>
> I designed a house that was built in the winter here (bad idea). I was
> concerned about residual moisture and mildew on wetted framing despite
> dehumidifiers, etc. Found a relatively amazing antimicrobial product here
> called 'Benefect' which is a botanical disinfectant approved as a broad
> spectrum hospital disinfectant. Non corrosive and basically zero toxicity
> so
> I've included it as a spec. for framing that bottom plates get sprayed.
>
> JOHN SALMEN ENVIRONMENTAL DESIGN
> 4465 UPHILL RD,. DUNCAN, B.C. CANADA, V9L 6M7
> PH 250 748 7672 FAX 250 748 7612 CELL 250 246 8541
> terrain at shaw.ca
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: greenbuilding-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
> [mailto:greenbuilding-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Bob
> Klahn
> Sent: November 8, 2010 5:41 AM
> To: greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Reducing mold
>
> Sacie,
>
> For the new wood that's moldy, you can try a water solution of sodium
> octoborate (trade named BoraCare). It soaks into the wood and is a mold
> inhibitor - not a mildicide. Pest control companies use it since it
> also deters termites. Since it is water borne, it can leach out if the
> wood is later saturated, but is otherwise stable.
>
> Urethane should exclude new moisture, just be sure the wood is dry all
> the way through (long moisture probe) before applying BoraCare and
> urethane.
>
> Perhaps best is the very low toxicity. On the other hand it is pricey.
>
> Bob Klahn
>
> On 11/7/2010 11:24 PM, Sacie Lambertson wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > As for simply wiping, well I spent a lot of today trying to 'clean'
> > some new wood on a new project of the black mildew/mold/fungus that is
> > spreading. Wiping didn't do it, 120 grit sanding didn't do it, clorox
> > didn't, nor did vinegar. Tomorrow I'll try something else. Want to
> > get it clean again then will tackle the job with a urethane to keep
> > the black stuff from reappearing.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Greenbuilding mailing list
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> Greenbuilding at bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
>
> End of Greenbuilding Digest, Vol 3, Issue 3
> *******************************************
>
--
Cheers,
Joshua Thornton
Founder/Director naturalbuild.ca
519 387 8787
info at naturalbuild.ca
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