[Greenbuilding] a better boiler

[Bob the Futureship]

Hello John,

 

I replaced a Weil-Mclain CGA-4 boiler (77000 BTU gas boiler) that was only 10 years old in CHICAGO in JANUARY.  

The HVAC contractor who installed the boiler 10 years ago said that the chimney was not venting properly (

Maybe debris) and caused the boiler to build-up carbon in the combustion chamber therefore rendering it

Irreparable.  He wanted $4700 to replace with a higher efficiency Weil -Mclain boiler that he would not have to fix

The chimney venting problem because he could vent directly out the side of building. I did not feel comfortable

Giving the same contractor another $4700 to install another boiler when the first one should have lasted 25 to 30  years.

The building is a 1910 brick “2 flat” rental property consisting of 2 small apartments (700sq. ft each) with unevenly heated cast iron radiators.  This boiler was used to heat both apartments.

 

To make a long story short … I decided to determine what the actual problem was and proceeded to

Diagnose and solve the problem myself. 

 

My conclusion: 

The chimney was not clogged however one side faced the arctic cold

Of Chicago and therefore caused condensation buildup inside the chimney because the air cooled off before

Exiting out the top of chimney . The condensation ran down the chimney into the boiler vent pipe and into the boiler. This is what caused the boiler to fail early … 10 years of condensation 

Dripping down into the boiler eventually causing a carbon/rust buildup and also rusting out the bottom half of the boiler.  This was one source of condensation. The installation manual recommends a vertical and horizontal drip vent

Installed to eliminate this issues. This was not done in the original installation.  If my conclusion is incorrect I welcome anyone on the list to help me understand the error in this conclusion? 

 

After talking to Weil-Mclain support engineers they confirmed another source of condensation within the boiler.

And that would be low temperature return water coming back into boiler causing condensation. This is corrected

With primary / secondary bypass piping that was not done in the original installation.  

 

Important Considerations that I learned the hard way in a cold snowy Chicago 2011 winter  in a cold apartment with very patient cold tenants.

 

#1. 30 year supply house veteran who helped me diagnose issues said his experience is “Most

Boilers are not installed correctly”. (Scary and I hope he is wrong.)

 

#2. Sizing of boiler should be calculated  with an estimate of Heating load. This would include an accurate assessment of building parameters and radiator sizing. See attached installation guide. 

 

#3. Venting calculation is very important using venting tables based on configuration of boiler location, chimney

And relative locations.

 

As to your thoughts on a better solution for the same price … 

Some ideas maybe worth pursuing ?

1.       Recently someone posted an idea about solar preheating to a boiler (maybe too expensive).  

2.       Convert to gas and use a tankless boiler. (Does anyone on list have experience with this technology?)

John … If interested I can send you documents related to my research and installation of a Weil-Mclain (CGA-3 50000BTU) used for one of the 700 SF apartments. Works fine in Chicago. 

 

 

Sincerely,

 

Bob Jakaitis aka "Jake" 
NC General Contractor | B.S.E.E.  Illinois Institue of Technology

Air Sealing and Energy Saving Services
Jake at the Lake Development Inc.
Tel: 704-236-3574
Email: jake at jakeatthelake.com

 

 

 

 

 

 

From: greenbuilding-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org [mailto:greenbuilding-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of John Beeson - Sunny Side Up
Sent: Tuesday, April 12, 2011 10:13 PM
To: greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org
Subject: [Greenbuilding] a better boiler

 

Hi all,

I have a friend that wants to replace her 30+yr old oil-based boiler for a Weil Mclain WTGO-5.  I feel like there has GOT to be something better for about the same price.

Anyone have any thoughts that want to share?

I'm at a loss as to knowing if this piece of equipment is oversized or undersized without really getting into it, but I figured I'd ask this group for pointers...

Thanks,

John

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     /       \                 John E. Beeson, AIA, NCARB, LEED AP BD+C
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"There's a fine line between standing on the shore fishing and looking like an idiot"   - Dave Barry

"But if we are designing new buildings in new ways, why shouldn’t we preserve old buildings in new ways as well?"  - Blair Kamin

"The road to energy independence, economic recovery and reductions in greenhouse gas emissions runs through the Building Sector." - Edward Mazria

"Sustainability is like teenage sex. Everybody says they're doing it, very few people actually are doing it. Those that are doing it are doing it badly." -Aussie architect Andrew Maynard

 

 

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