[Greenbuilding] geopolymer or alkali activated cements

Sun Apr 17 17:11:07 CDT 2011

There are several pages discussing various kinds of cement in "Heat: How to Stop the Planet from Burning", by George Monbiot.  He mentions geopolymer cement, as well as pozzolan cements used by the Romans.  A website reference he gives in the notes is the following:   http://www.romanconcrete.com/Article1Secrets.pdf    I hope it is of interest to you.

Regards
DJ

> From: greenbuilding-request at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Subject: Greenbuilding Digest, Vol 8, Issue 21
> To: greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2011 12:00:02 -0700
> 
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> Today's Topics:
> 
> 1. Re: best lumber for raised vegetable beds (Sacie Lambertson)
> 2. building floor on top of rigid foam... (basement/garage
> retrofit) (sat jiwan ikle-khalsa)
> 3. Re: geopolymer or alkali activated cements (Ocean Swells)
> 4. Re: building floor on top of rigid foam... (basement/garage
> retrofit) (RT)
> 5. Re: best lumber for raised vegetable beds (Matt Dirksen)
> 6. Re: geopolymer or alkali activated cements (Gennaro Brooks-Church)
> 7. Re: building floor on top of rigid foam... (basement/garage
> retrofit) (ErgoDesk)
> 8. Re: building floor on top of rigid foam... (basement/garage
> retrofit) (Benjamin Pratt)
> 
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2011 14:14:19 -0500
> From: Sacie Lambertson <sacie.lambertson at gmail.com>
> To: Green Building <greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] best lumber for raised vegetable beds
> Message-ID: <BANLkTimHUTYcAayDdn03-oQ5xvL3zP0Yew at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> HI Matt, I've passed your query onto our forum tech person. I imagine she
> can help you. Sacie
> 
> On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 10:20 AM, Matt Dirksen <dirksengreen at gmail.com>wrote:
> 
> >
> > Hey Jason,
> >
> > For some reason every time I send in an email I get an auto response to the
> > list but it never shows up. I've gone in in played with my settings to no
> > avail. Any thoughts on who I should contact about fixing this?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Matt
> >
> >
> >
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 2
> Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2011 15:53:26 -0400
> From: sat jiwan ikle-khalsa <satjiwan_khalsa at hotmail.com>
> To: listserv Green Building new
> <greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: [Greenbuilding] building floor on top of rigid foam...
> (basement/garage retrofit)
> Message-ID: <SNT116-W4352EC0300298238F4887791AF0 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> 
> anyone have experience or thoughts on this? (thought it might apply to retrofitting basements without slab insulation as well - provided sufficient head height.)
> 
> a client wants to energy efficiently convert an attached garage made into a living space.
> and at the same time raise the floor up to be level with the adjacent room. there's no insulation under the slab. so what's a good floor assembly to get height and insulation. and in this case no need for bearing a lot of load.
> 
> we're aiming for about R20 floor insulation (rough passiv haus goal for our region - Mid Atlantic USA). we're thinking to put 2 layers or two inch rigid foam on top of the existing slab then build a floor with 2x framing members sufficient to bring the height up so 3/4" plywood and carpet on top will meet the other room's height.
> 
> i know XPS is rated for under slab applications. would the somewhat more point(linear) load of 2x material be a problem resting on the rigid foam? (note there's no walls planned on top of this floor and no other bearing weight than the floor and furniture.
> 
> would Roxul rigid foam work? is it specified for load applications?
> 
> 
> alternatively: 
> 
> a. lay down vapor barrier on slab, build appropriate height flooring and before applying plywood, fill joist bays with some kind of batt (roxul/denim) or loose fill (cellulose) material. there's plenty of room to get R20, but will loose thermal break with wood right on slab.
> 
> b. (crazy??) build up more layers of foam insulation (6-8" total) - then lay plywood on top. (a floating floor). this seems a little loose to me, especially since you'd want to leave some gaps in plywood joints and edges of room to accommodate expansion. (would using two (thinner?) layers of plywood, laid opposite directions and screwed to each other secure it enough??)
> 
> c. any other brilliant strategies?
> 
> -satjiwan
> 
> 
> ~ ~ ~ ~ please use my permanent email address: satjiwan at alumni.brandeis.edu ~ ~ ~ ~
> 
> 
> 
> Some of my recent projects: 
> SEE: http://www.Truthful-Living.com
> (Low-flow) Blogging at: http://truthful-living.blogspot.com/ (as of 6/09)
> Green Building Consulting Services - Green Homes Tour - (and free monthly column, green home building resource and energy guide)
> Annotated green house renovation photos - www.SaveOurSky.com - corn stove cooperatives - Takoma Park Green Building Group
> 
> 
> 
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> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 3
> Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2011 11:47:26 -1000
> From: Ocean Swells <swell at labranch.com>
> To: Greenbuilding at bioenergylists.org
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] geopolymer or alkali activated cements
> Message-ID: <BANLkTikOnLF+8PGrXQqJ3xPyxFCE78BRKQ at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> 
> a little follow up: i just discovered that there is a large volcanic
> ash deposit on the big island. i don't know if it is pozzolonic, but,
> this could be a significant ingredient for a low temperature cement.
> 
> > ===
> > lime (hydrated) 8 parts
> > sodium carbonate (washing soda) 6 parts
> > kaolin clay 16 parts
> > water
> > mixed in aggregate: 450 parts loose limestone (sans clay) ?(???calcium
> > carbonate???)
> > ===
> >
> 
> > Here are what I see as local materials:
> > "Red Dirt" - oxisols - iron oxide, aluminum oxide, kaolin clay (comes
> > from neighbor islands)
> > "Lava Rock" - basalt - i don't mind using processed into basalt sand.
> > (this is the most local)
> > "Ocean Sand" - *not* silicate, i think ocean sand is a calcium
> > carbonate, from coral, ???like limestone??? ?(hard to get on big
> > island but on ocean floor)
> >
> > i was thinking that the following might be a start:
> >
> > lime, washing soda, red dirt, aggregate: either ocean sand, basalt
> > sand, or both, plus larger basalt aggregates.
> >
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 4
> Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2011 18:59:15 -0400
> From: RT <Archilogic at yahoo.ca>
> To: satjiwan at alumni.brandeis.edu, "Green Building"
> <greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] building floor on top of rigid foam...
> (basement/garage retrofit)
> Message-ID: <op.vt1zgxxdt09nld at t60-pc>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed;
> delsp=yes
> 
> On Sat, 16 Apr 2011 15:53:26 -0400, sat jiwan ikle-khalsa 
> <satjiwan_khalsa at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > we're aiming for about R20 floor insulation (rough passiv haus goal for 
> > our region - Mid Atlantic USA). we're thinking to put 2 layers or two 
> > inch rigid foam on top of the existing slab then build a floor with 2x 
> > framing members sufficient to bring the height up so 3/4" plywood and 
> > carpet on top will meet the other room's height.
> >
> > would Roxul rigid foam work? is it specified for load applications?
> 
> My first question would be:
> 
> "Why is (steenking,off-gassing, allergen-magnet) "carpet" even being 
> mentioned ?"
> 
> My second question would be:
> 
> "Why would one choose to use extruded polystyrene in that situation
> 
> My third question would be:
> 
> "Why bother with the wood framing ?
> 
> (There is no such thing as "Roxul rigid foam" as far as I am aware.)
> 
> If I were doing the project, I'd use the less costly and more 
> enviro-friendly expanded polystyrene (EPS) rather than the extruded (XPS) 
> and leave out the wood framing/ carpet altogether and just cast a 2.5" to 
> 3" thick concrete slab on top of the EPS, possibly colouring/stamping the 
> concrete or laying stone or porcelain tile over if for some reason the 
> skills are lacking to produce good quality concrete.
> 
> This of course allows one the option of installing hydronic heating in the 
> slab if necessary (ie if taking advantage of direct gains isn't possible).
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> === * ===
> Rob Tom
> Kanata, Ontario, Canada
> < A r c h i L o g i c at Y a h o o dot C A >
> (manually winnow the chaff from my edress if you hit REPLY)
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 5
> Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2011 19:28:57 -0400
> From: Matt Dirksen <dirksengreen at gmail.com>
> To: Green Building <greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] best lumber for raised vegetable beds
> Message-ID: <8A396B97-5D9D-4D69-B0EF-176BFFE990FB at gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
> 
> Testing...
> 
> 
> 
> On Apr 15, 2011, at 6:04 PM, "William R Bloom" <wbloom at unm.edu> wrote:
> 
> > Be careful with the material you spec.
> > 
> > 
> > "Only materials made with either all plastic components or plastic and fiberglass will resist the elements outdoors for 200 years or more (the estimate for HDPE RPL or RPLs with HDPE and fiberglass).
> > These materials do not stain, warp, rot or take on moisture, or leach any chemicals. They are virtually non-reactive with water and other water-based solutions."
> > 
> > HDPE or high density polyethylene has poor UV resistance causing it to rot when exposed to sunlight. It can be clad with a UV resistant cladding or otherwise stabilized. The recreational vehicle industry learned this lesson in the 1960's when the exterior plastic fenders, exterior trim pieces and other parts began to rot off the sides of the motorhomes from sunlight exposure. Its amazing how quickly this can occur.
> > 
> > Reference: http://www.dynalabcorp.com/technical_info_hd_polyethylene.asp
> > 
> > I would assume/hope that the plastic lumber manufacturers use a stabilizing agent when forming their products. It wouldn't scare me away, but I would want to be sure its UV stable.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Greenbuilding mailing list
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > Greenbuilding at bioenergylists.org
> > 
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 6
> Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2011 19:57:33 -0400
> From: Gennaro Brooks-Church <info at ecobrooklyn.com>
> To: Green Building <greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] geopolymer or alkali activated cements
> Message-ID: <BANLkTi=n2xAwpuacZvh_QWt_fg9vssp0SA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
> 
> Ocean,
> I don't have anything to add in terms of a cement alternative except
> that I am very interested in hearing what you find. I have known about
> the French organization for a while. I contacted them but didn't get
> much info out of them. Rammed earth and the like is great but it lacks
> the chemical reaction that really makes a substance strong. I would
> love to get info on how to make an alternative to concrete.
> 
> Gennaro Brooks-Church
> 
> Cell: 1 347 244 3016 USA
> www.EcoBrooklyn.com
> 22 2nd St; Brooklyn, NY 11231
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 5:47 PM, Ocean Swells <swell at labranch.com> wrote:
> > a little follow up: i just discovered that there is a large volcanic
> > ash deposit on the big island. ?i don't know if it is pozzolonic, but,
> > this could be a significant ingredient for a low temperature cement.
> >
> >> ===
> >> lime (hydrated) 8 parts
> >> sodium carbonate (washing soda) 6 parts
> >> kaolin clay 16 parts
> >> water
> >> mixed in aggregate: 450 parts loose limestone (sans clay) ?(???calcium
> >> carbonate???)
> >> ===
> >>
> >
> >> Here are what I see as local materials:
> >> "Red Dirt" - oxisols - iron oxide, aluminum oxide, kaolin clay (comes
> >> from neighbor islands)
> >> "Lava Rock" - basalt - i don't mind using processed into basalt sand.
> >> (this is the most local)
> >> "Ocean Sand" - *not* silicate, i think ocean sand is a calcium
> >> carbonate, from coral, ???like limestone??? ?(hard to get on big
> >> island but on ocean floor)
> >>
> >> i was thinking that the following might be a start:
> >>
> >> lime, washing soda, red dirt, aggregate: either ocean sand, basalt
> >> sand, or both, plus larger basalt aggregates.
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Greenbuilding mailing list
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > Greenbuilding at bioenergylists.org
> >
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org
> 
> 
> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 7
> Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2011 19:12:11 -0700
> From: ErgoDesk <ergodesk at gmail.com>
> To: satjiwan at alumni.brandeis.edu, Green Building
> <greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] building floor on top of rigid foam...
> (basement/garage retrofit)
> Message-ID: <BANLkTimTMpqErLt8ewx51xz9CdE9b9VLZA at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> Try my BLOGs listed below for EPS Foam solutions or contact me for FREE
> Solutions.
> 
> George
> Advanced, Super Insulated, Building Systems
> http://StyroHomeNews.blogspot.com
> http://styrohome.ning.com
> http://twitter.com/styrohome
> <http://twitter.com/styrohome>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 12:53 PM, sat jiwan ikle-khalsa <
> satjiwan_khalsa at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > anyone have experience or thoughts on this? (thought it might apply to
> > retrofitting basements without slab insulation as well - provided sufficient
> > head height.)
> >
> > a client wants to energy efficiently convert an attached garage made into a
> > living space.
> > and at the same time raise the floor up to be level with the adjacent room.
> > there's no insulation under the slab. so what's a good floor assembly to get
> > height and insulation. and in this case no need for bearing a lot of load.
> >
> > we're aiming for about R20 floor insulation (rough passiv haus goal for our
> > region - Mid Atlantic USA). we're thinking to put 2 layers or two inch
> > rigid foam on top of the existing slab then build a floor with 2x framing
> > members sufficient to bring the height up so 3/4" plywood and carpet on top
> > will meet the other room's height.
> >
> > i know XPS is rated for under slab applications. would the somewhat more
> > point(linear) load of 2x material be a problem resting on the rigid foam?
> > (note there's no walls planned on top of this floor and no other bearing
> > weight than the floor and furniture.
> >
> > would Roxul rigid foam work? is it specified for load applications?
> >
> >
> > alternatively:
> >
> > a. lay down vapor barrier on slab, build appropriate height flooring and
> > before applying plywood, fill joist bays with some kind of batt
> > (roxul/denim) or loose fill (cellulose) material. there's plenty of room to
> > get R20, but will loose thermal break with wood right on slab.
> >
> > b. (crazy??) build up more layers of foam insulation (6-8" total) - then
> > lay plywood on top. (a floating floor). this seems a little loose to me,
> > especially since you'd want to leave some gaps in plywood joints and edges
> > of room to accommodate expansion. (would using two (thinner?) layers of
> > plywood, laid opposite directions and screwed to each other secure it
> > enough??)
> >
> > c. any other brilliant strategies?
> >
> > -satjiwan
> >
> >
> > ~ ~ ~ ~ please use my permanent email address:
> > satjiwan at alumni.brandeis.edu ~ ~ ~ ~
> >
> > Some of my recent projects: SEE: http://www.Truthful-Living.com
> > (Low-flow) Blogging at: http://truthful-living.blogspot.com/ (as of 6/09)
> > Green Building Consulting Services - Green Homes Tour - (and free monthly
> > column, green home building resource and energy guide)
> > Annotated green house renovation photos - www.SaveOurSky.com - corn stove
> > cooperatives - Takoma Park Green Building Group
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Greenbuilding mailing list
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > Greenbuilding at bioenergylists.org
> >
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >
> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
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> 
> ------------------------------
> 
> Message: 8
> Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2011 21:24:17 -0500
> From: Benjamin Pratt <benjamin.g.pratt at gmail.com>
> To: Green Building <greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] building floor on top of rigid foam...
> (basement/garage retrofit)
> Message-ID: <BANLkTikxJGVb_5XcAbooQ7EKgvX_HaF9Gw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> 
> http://www.finehomebuilding.com/how-to/qa/finishing-a-basement-floor.aspx
> 
> On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 9:12 PM, ErgoDesk <ergodesk at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> > Try my BLOGs listed below for EPS Foam solutions or contact me for FREE
> > Solutions.
> >
> > George
> > Advanced, Super Insulated, Building Systems
> > http://StyroHomeNews.blogspot.com
> > http://styrohome.ning.com
> > http://twitter.com/styrohome
> > <http://twitter.com/styrohome>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Apr 16, 2011 at 12:53 PM, sat jiwan ikle-khalsa <
> > satjiwan_khalsa at hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> anyone have experience or thoughts on this? (thought it might apply to
> >> retrofitting basements without slab insulation as well - provided sufficient
> >> head height.)
> >>
> >> a client wants to energy efficiently convert an attached garage made into
> >> a living space.
> >> and at the same time raise the floor up to be level with the adjacent
> >> room. there's no insulation under the slab. so what's a good floor assembly
> >> to get height and insulation. and in this case no need for bearing a lot of
> >> load.
> >>
> >> we're aiming for about R20 floor insulation (rough passiv haus goal for
> >> our region - Mid Atlantic USA). we're thinking to put 2 layers or two inch
> >> rigid foam on top of the existing slab then build a floor with 2x framing
> >> members sufficient to bring the height up so 3/4" plywood and carpet on top
> >> will meet the other room's height.
> >>
> >> i know XPS is rated for under slab applications. would the somewhat more
> >> point(linear) load of 2x material be a problem resting on the rigid foam?
> >> (note there's no walls planned on top of this floor and no other bearing
> >> weight than the floor and furniture.
> >>
> >> would Roxul rigid foam work? is it specified for load applications?
> >>
> >>
> >> alternatively:
> >>
> >> a. lay down vapor barrier on slab, build appropriate height flooring and
> >> before applying plywood, fill joist bays with some kind of batt
> >> (roxul/denim) or loose fill (cellulose) material. there's plenty of room to
> >> get R20, but will loose thermal break with wood right on slab.
> >>
> >> b. (crazy??) build up more layers of foam insulation (6-8" total) - then
> >> lay plywood on top. (a floating floor). this seems a little loose to me,
> >> especially since you'd want to leave some gaps in plywood joints and edges
> >> of room to accommodate expansion. (would using two (thinner?) layers of
> >> plywood, laid opposite directions and screwed to each other secure it
> >> enough??)
> >>
> >> c. any other brilliant strategies?
> >>
> >> -satjiwan
> >>
> >>
> >> ~ ~ ~ ~ please use my permanent email address:
> >> satjiwan at alumni.brandeis.edu ~ ~ ~ ~
> >>
> >> Some of my recent projects: SEE: http://www.Truthful-Living.com
> >> (Low-flow) Blogging at: http://truthful-living.blogspot.com/ (as of 6/09)
> >> Green Building Consulting Services - Green Homes Tour - (and free monthly
> >> column, green home building resource and energy guide)
> >> Annotated green house renovation photos - www.SaveOurSky.com - corn stove
> >> cooperatives - Takoma Park Green Building Group
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Greenbuilding mailing list
> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> >> Greenbuilding at bioenergylists.org
> >>
> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >>
> >> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Greenbuilding mailing list
> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> > Greenbuilding at bioenergylists.org
> >
> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> >
> > http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> b e n j a m i n p r a t t
> 
> professor art+design
> the university of wisconsin stout
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> ------------------------------
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Greenbuilding mailing list
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> Greenbuilding at bioenergylists.org
> 
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/greenbuilding_lists.bioenergylists.org
> 
> 
> End of Greenbuilding Digest, Vol 8, Issue 21
> ********************************************

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