[Greenbuilding] Martha Stewart

Sat Feb 19 07:32:36 CST 2011

I think the only reason earlier people didn't destroy the earth like we do
now is because there were a lot less of them.
There were a couple thousand indians on manhattan. Their way of staying
clean was to move camp sites whenever "the stench became unbeatable".
Paraphrased by the amazing book manahatta.
Their ecological wisdom is overrated. A couple million indians on manhattan
wouldn't last a week.

The only wisdom you could argue they had was keeping their population low,
which I don't think was intentional.

Gennaro
347 244 3016
 On Feb 19, 2011 1:07 AM, "Tim Vireo Keating" <
t.keating at rainforestrelief.org> wrote:
> Sorry for the long post butŠ I find myself struck
> by so many aspects of this conversation that I
> simply cannot keep silent.
>
> When I see references to Star Trek, I am reminded
> of my assessment of the Star Trek mythology. The
> philosophy seemed to change a bit with the
> various shows, but only a little. It suggested
> that, in the future, humans had been able to
> solve all the problems plaguing their tenure on
> Earth and then, using new technology, venture out
> into space (presumably wiser than other species
> of life intelligent enough to either have taken
> over their own planets and/or to also have
> developed the means of space travel).
>
> A number of things come to mind when I think of
> the Star Trek philosophy (voiced, to some degree,
> by Gennaro). One is that, in order for it to
> truly work, the amount of resources poured into
> getting some humans to other planets will have
> assured the loss of many more species of life on
> Earth (after all, where will the steel, aluminum,
> plastic and energy come from?).
>
> The second thing is this (and forgive me for the twists and turns here):
>
> In an episode of Star Trek Enterprise (for
> non-watchers, this was the most recent TV
> iteration, the prequel to the original, taking
> place just after the development of the warp
> drive), I observed Captain Archer, talking among
> a small group that included a Vulcan, say
> something to this effect: "on Vulcan you've been
> able to control your emotions. But on the earth,
> we don't do things that way." That is, when he
> referred to someone else's planet, he named that
> planet using its proper name, without an article
> (as we still do with Mars, Venus, Jupiter, etc.).
> But, when referring to Earth, his own planet, he
> stated "it" as "the earth".
>
> I believe this to be an incredibly important
> difference and, I have noticed, it has now become
> the convention. Civilized humans have come to
> refer to the planet on (in) which we live as "the
> earth", in effect, expiring 'her'. It seems that
> our culture now considers our planet to be
> nothing more than a lump of dirt, even though we
> continue to refer to other planets with their
> proper - and capitalized - names. Indeed, in
> Gennaro's post below, he refers to "earth" (small
> "e").
>
> Why? It seems we have cut out the personal,
> spiritual sense we once had of our Mother as a
> living being. In my opinion, this was done
> intentionally, for expedience. After all, if
> Earth is a living being (like Io, Mercury or
> Vulcan), how could we mine her and remove her
> vital skin (forests)? Only by objectifying her
> can we do these things and feel okay - much as
> men objectified women and were thus able to 'own'
> them as wives (whereby they could not, by law, be
> raped). We did the same with animals. Thousand of
> years ago - and still today, among foraging
> peoples - we considered other animals to be part
> of autonomous nations. But at some point, we came
> to see them as property. Only then were were able
> to capture them and corral them and hobble them,
> whip them and cut off their genitals, so we could
> keep them around as our future food.
>
> I have come to understand that the notion of
> 'humans' leaving Earth for other planets is not
> only the epitome of the truly tragic (for all
> life) mythology of civilized humans, but also a
> grand delusion. If, when one looks around, one is
> not seeing a planet in crisis, where humans are
> about to succumb to the wave of extinction that
> we have, ourselves created, I believe one is
> deluded. If one is seeing this as okay, thinking
> that other planets are the relief valve, then, I
> believe, one is also part of the problem.
>
> The other thing that comes up for me around this
> is that civilized humans forget that
> non-civilized humans existed and, indeed, worked
> quite well, thank you very much, on this planet
> for a million years before the 'invention' of
> Civilization just a short 12,000 years ago. It is
> only Civilization that has led us to the
> precipice of Mass Extinction and the extinction
> of humans along with it.
>
> For me, the notion of colonizing other planets is
> very, very scary because, if Civilized humans do
> that, I believe it is simply INEVITABLE that we
> will destroy any planet on which we land. This, I
> believe, is simply the nature of Civilization.
> Civilized humans are the last thing I would wish
> upon our Milky Way.
>
> Ethiopian proverb: "no matter how far you've
> traveled down the wrong roadŠ turn back".
>
> I believe what is needed is for civilized humans
> to re-embrace a way of seeing ourselves that is
> humble and abides Earth as the ultimate governor.
> That would, I think, mean that we have moved back
> towards seeing ourselves as a strand in the web,
> rather than the owners of this 'property' that's
> been "given" to us.
>
> I'll end with this: Bill states below the chances
> of other "life forms" crossing our path during
> our short existence as being "extremely low". My
> experience is quite different. From the time I
> was a child, I have grown to at first find
> fascinating, then admire, and then love the
> thousands upon thousands of other life forms that
> have crossed my path during my short (but
> fluorescent) time I have spent walking upon,
> swimming in and eating Mother Earth. I find
> "myself" surrounded by, and indeed, made up of,
> other life forms. So, perhaps, herein lies the
> problem. Most of us walk around never seeing
> them, never touching them, never really eating
> them - never (or so we think) depending on them.
> And thus, I often hear people express that 'we're
> alone here'. Wow.
>
> We are not alone. We are one species among what
> may be more than a billion unique life forms,
> surrounded by trillions of autonomous individual
> beings, all part of something grand. We call her
> Earth.
>
> The "final frontier" is the space between our ears.
>
> tim keating
>
>
> At 3:32 AM +0000 2/12/11, bill.allen at verizon.net wrote:
>>I too find it hard to believe that earth hosts
>>the only life in the vast universe. However,
>>considering the infinity of time involved, the
>>chances of other life forms crossing our path
>>during our short existence are extremely low.
>>
>>So, I believe we are stuck with just us, on
>>earth, so we better take the best care of it we
>>can.
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Gennaro Brooks-Church <info at ecobrooklyn.com>
>>Sender: greenbuilding-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>Date: Fri, 11 Feb 2011 20:29:10
>>To: Green Building<greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>Reply-to: Green Building <greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Martha Stewart
>>
>>Ron I'm not sure how vital us humans are to earth.
>>Maybe somebody can remind me but from what I remember us humans have
>>been on the earth for about 1% of it's life. And who knows how long we
>>last.
>>
>>In time the human infestation of earth may be remembered as a short
>>lived irritant in earths long life.
>>
>>And just to mix things up a little, I think it is the epitome of
>>arrogance to think humans are the only space travelers in this vast
>>universe.
>>My bets are that we are a designated nature preserve very much like
>>certain cavemen tribes are in places like the Andaman islands or
>>Borneo. The aliens are keeping us isolated so we are not tainted by
>>the issues of modern society (their modern society).
>>
>>Gennaro Brooks-Church
>>
>>Cell: 1 347 244 3016 USA
>>www.EcoBrooklyn.com
>>22 2nd St; Brooklyn, NY 11231
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On Fri, Feb 11, 2011 at 8:13 PM, Ron Cascio <roncascio at verizon.net> wrote:
>>> Greenwashing taken to the limits of space.
>>>
>>> Dream on.
>>>
>>> We already have a home, and we have evolved as a vital part of it.
>>>
>>> Ron
>>>
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lynelle Hamilton"
>>> <lynelle at lahamilton.com>
>>> To: "Green Building" <greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, February 11, 2011 6:38 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] Martha Stewart
>>>
>>>
>>> With polished silver tea service on board, I'm certain....
>>>
>>> Lynelle
>>>
>>> On 11/02/2011 5:59 PM, Jason Holstine wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Everyone on this thread is more prescient than I imagined...given
>>>> today's announcement that Martha Stewart is teaming with Sir Richard
>>>> Branson on a new Space Rocket/Housing Pod-sounds like an RV for space
>>>> travel.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 2/11/11 1:53 PM, "Benjamin Pratt" <benjamin.g.pratt at gmail.com>
wrote:
>> >>
>>>> I don't have an issue with dreaming optimistically about the future. I
>>>> do have a problem with spending incredible amounts of resources and
>>>> money exploring the universe when it could be put to much better
>>>> use--toward research on the environment solutions to save our planet,
>>>> for example.
>>>> Ben
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> b e n j a m i n p r a t t
>>>>
>>>> professor art+design
>>>> the university of wisconsin stout
>>>>
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>>>>
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>>>
>>> --
>>> Effective immediately, please use the following e-mail address to reach
>>> me: lynelle at lahamilton.com
>>>
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>
>
> --
>
>
> "The Earth and myself are of one mind. The measure of the land and the
> measure of our bodies are the same..."
> - Hinmaton Yalatkit, Nez Perce chief
> ____________________________________________
>
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