[Greenbuilding] over-insulating

Norbert Senf norbert.senf at gmail.com
Fri Jan 29 11:57:18 MST 2016


On Fri, Jan 29, 2016 at 9:19 AM, Bill Allen <bill.allen at verizon.net> wrote:

> I have been brainstorming the same concept except I have additional
> requirements for the heater:
> 1) needs to provide the living room ambiance of a traditional firplace
> when desired.
>

Hi Bill:
Fireplace ambience:
http://heatkit.com/graphics/clients2/c-davison11b.JPG

that one has a heated bench and bakeoven on the kitchen side

> 2) power a radient floor system if neccessary.
>

A waste of time and money, in my opinion. The masonry heater has 100 sq. ft
of vertical radiant panel that runs at 160F surface temperature. Ie., in a
well designed house, it is the radiant heating system, why move that heat
around via water and pumps into a floor?

As a house becomes more efficient, heat distribution issues and temperature
stratification tend to disappear.
Here is some feedback I got last week from the client in New Brunswick who
built the heater in the photo, and the house that was designed around it:
http://heatkit.com/docs/feedback/c-davison.htm

A lot of people put the radiant tubing into the slab anyway, because that
part is cheap. You can add the expensive headers, controllers and boiler
later. Better to have that as a backup system running on a separately
fueled boiler.
Otherwise the masonry heater has to get built as a boiler, and will not be
a fireplace. Here is what a masonry boiler looks like:
http://heatkit.com/html/lopezs.htm
However, if your heat load is low, your backup can be a couple of electric
baseboards, much cheaper. Usually you want a non-wood backup so that the
house can be heated unattended if necessary..............................N
(snip)
>
>
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S® 5 ACTIVE™, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Norbert Senf <norbert.senf at gmail.com>
> Date:01/29/2016 8:43 AM (GMT-05:00)
> To: Green Building <greenbuilding at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Cc:
> Subject: Re: [Greenbuilding] over-insulating
>
> This reminds me of an interesting concept from Fairbanks, Alaska:
> Alaska building researchers have developed a popular super envelope system
> that reduces your heat load practically to zero. It adds about $100,000 to
> the cost of conventional 2x4 framing construction up there. A heater mason
> friend and a plumber colleague developed the following idea, that has been
> very successful in practice:
>
> - skip the $100,000 envelope add-on
> - use 2x6 framing w, 2" foam on the outside, tight construction, good
> attic insulation, etc.
> - design in a wood fired masonry heater with a hot water system.
>
> - you now have an extremely clean and efficient fireplace, plus just
> enough heat load and heat storage that you can fire the masonry heater once
> a day and have it make all your domestic hot water.
> - domestic hot water is very expensive in Alaska, so you get a great
> payback.
>
> On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 11:52 PM, Reuben Deumling <9watts at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I agree, Bob.
>>
>> I was using Frank's term, and compared to what is generally recommended
>> (for our climate zone) eleven inches would probably be considered
>> excessive.
>> Mostly I posted this little summary because it seems like it confirms my
>> long-standing hunch that you can achieve something along the lines of what
>> is promised in the Passivhaus fine print without spending a mint or using
>> crazy gizmos or materials.
>>
>> I like heating with wood, and think I'll miss it when it becomes merely
>> an occasional thing, but then there is the weeks and months I don't need to
>> look for, cut and split and stack and haul and restack and move and move
>> again, and make fires every day for 5-6 months of every year....
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 8:45 PM, Bob Waldrop <bwaldrop1952 at att.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> It seems to me that you didn't "over-insulate," instead, you insulated
>>> the "right amount".  Ever since we defied all the local conventional wisdom
>>> and put nine inches of insulation into our walls by insulating the existing
>>> walls and then building new walls five inches inside of the exterior walls
>>> and insulating those, we've been enjoying lower heating and air
>>> conditioning bills.  Personally, I think that generally most builders
>>> underinsulate businesses and condemn their occupants to perpetual indenture
>>> to utility companies.
>>>
>>> Bob Waldrop, Okie City
>>>
>>> On 1/28/2016 10:17 PM, Gennaro Brooks-Church - Eco Brooklyn wrote:
>>>
>>> Congrats Ruben on your remodel. Sounds great.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jan 28, 2016 at 7:04 PM, Reuben Deumling <9watts at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> However...the heating demand for this space is very nearly zero. The
>>>>> whole house (before this remodel) burned through about 5 cords/winter and
>>>>> it was never really cozy. So far this winter my mom's burned a little over
>>>>> one-tenth of a cord.
>>>>>
>>>>> Reuben
>>>>>
>>>>> * I know I asked a bunch of questions about this project of you folks
>>>>> along the way. A belated thank you to all.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Greenbuilding mailing list
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sent from Mobile, excuse the brevity.
>>> Gennaro Brooks-Church, Director
>>> Eco Brooklyn
>>> 347-244-3016
>>> 22 2nd St, BK NY 11231
>>>
>>>
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>>>
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>>
>>
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>
>
>
> --
> Norbert Senf
> Masonry Stove Builders
> 25 Brouse Road, RR 5
> Shawville Québec J0X 2Y0
> 819.647.5092
> www.heatkit.com
>
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-- 
Norbert Senf
Masonry Stove Builders
25 Brouse Road, RR 5
Shawville Québec J0X 2Y0
819.647.5092
www.heatkit.com
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