[Stoves] [ Misuderstanding of TLUD stoves Re: Refuelable TLUD

Sat Apr 16 16:24:59 CDT 2011

Tom and List (adding biochar-production) 

I like this. The dense pyramid seems new. Tom - have you any measurements on yield? 

The beauty is complete freedom from any hardware or any cost. It sounds better than something similar we have talked about on this and the Biochar site - see: 
http://www.jackdaniels.com/tennesseewhiskey/Default.aspx 

In their photo, pay attention to the "ricks" being set afire - maybe every day - out in the open. It is my impression that they bottom light and it is certainly not a pyramid nor dense. But they have practicing this (with maple) for a century or more (??). I once tried to get their yield, but no-one I talked to at Jack Daniels knew the answer. 

It is not much different in any 3-stone fire or an enclosed home heating stove , if you pay attention to the color of the embers. But Tom's use of a dense top-lit pyramid is a new idea, to my knowledge. It sounds like it should be an improvement - because of pushing only combustible gases past the already-produced char. 

This ought to work out in the bush with primitive mud-covered mounds - but most that I have seen bottom light. In any case, the usual covered mounds are producing horrible pyrolysis gases that are not being flared. In one's backyard or back-40, Tom's approach, with (presumably) little smoke, sounds like something more people should be trying. 

Tom - can one relax and read a book also - under the right wind conditions? 

Ron 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Thomas Reed" <tombreed2009 at gmail.com> 
To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org> 
Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2011 9:59:13 AM 
Subject: Re: [Stoves] [ Misuderstanding of TLUD stoves Re: Refuelable TLUD 

Dear Ron and List: 

Ron's remark is well taken and I'll add a little more. 

I have been making a LOT of charcoal using the PYROMID method: Stack up a lot wood (as from cutting up a brush pile for instance) in a DENSE pyramid, any size. Use tinder to light the apex of the pyramid at the top. 

The reaction zone will quitely ignite layer after layer with the upper layers of charcoal protected from burning by the expanded layer of deoxygenated ("dephlogisticated") gas rising by natural convection. Avoid windy days that would blow the protective gas sideways. 

Stand by with a hose of watering cans to wet any char that extends beyond the protection and to put out the whole pile when done. After you think it's out, think again because small embers can hide and come alive again. 

We are having a big charcoal roast near Amherst April 28th at 4 PM. 

Tom Reed 

Pyrologist 

On Wed, Apr 13, 2011 at 6:28 PM, < rongretlarson at comcast.net > wrote: 

Hi list: 

This is to concur with Tom's remarks. 

The other important element of TLUDs, that I often see missing in their definition, is the [easy, trivial] ability to control primary air flow - to achieve a sizeable turndown ratio. Much fuel is wasted when there is either too much or too little primary air. 

Ron 

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Thomas Reed" < tombreed2009 at gmail.com > 
To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" < stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org >, "paal wendelbo" < paaw at online.no >, "Paul S Anderson" < psanders at ilstu.edu >, "Hugh McLaughlin" < alternaenergy at charter.net > 

Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2011 4:05:04 PM 
Subject: Re: [Stoves] [ Misuderstanding of TLUD stoves Re: Refuelable TLUD 

Dear Paal and All 

I think that Paal has missed the point of TLUDs. When a pile of wood starts burning at the bottom, most of the fuel will be pyrolysed as the heat passes up through the bed and burned without mixing with air. 

When the fire is lighted on TOP of the fuel, the volatiles burn, leaving a layer of charcoal. Enough of this charcoal will burn to insure drying and ignition of the second layer, same, same, until all of the volatiles from the whole charge have burned, leaving the charcoal behind. 

Bottom lighting is char burning, volatiles escaping. 
Top lighting is volatiles burning, charcoal preserved. 

So TLUD is not connected to the fuel, but to the manner in which air meets the fuel. 

<><><> 

Conventional downdraft gasification uses the draft of an engine to pull air down through a charge of first wood, then charcoal, so can be thought of as a Bottom Lit Downdraft instead of a Top Lit Updraft. That is why I originally called it an "inverted downdraft gasifier" back in 1985 when I first ran it. 

Words are important. 

TOM REED 
Pyrologist 

On Mon, Mar 7, 2011 at 5:05 AM, Paal wendelbo < paaw at online.no > wrote: 

Stovers. 

As far I can see the name TLUD is connected to the fuel and the combustion, and can not be a name of a certain stove. LPG, alcohol and kerosene stoves are all TLUDs and can not be ignited from underneath Reeds, Andersons and Peko Pe will not be TLUDs if some drops of kerosene go through the fuel and ignite at the bottom. The Champion stove can even be ignited from underneath, which probably most user will do if they don’t have access to kerosene since it is more simple. And if you ad some fuel during time of combustion, is no longer a TLUD. 

TLBM- NF and TLBM-FD could probably do, BM stand for biomass, then charcoal and woodstoves will be included in the family if fuel are ignited on top and the refilling is from underneath the glowing. . 

The Peko Pe was originally called Multi Fuel Combustion System MFCS, 

due to the fact more types of biomass fuel could be utilized.and there was no other way to ignite than on top 

With regards Paal W 

_______________________________________________ 
Stoves mailing list 

to Send a Message to the list, use the email address 
Stoves mailing list 

to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page 
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org 

for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: 
http://www.bioenergylists.org/ 
Stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org 
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org 

-- 
Dr. Thomas B. Reed 
The Biomass Energy Foundation 
The BioChar Engineering Corporation 
www.WoodGas.com 

_______________________________________________ 
Stoves mailing list 

to Send a Message to the list, use the email address 
stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org 

to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page 
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org 

for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: 
http://www.bioenergylists.org/ 

_______________________________________________ 
Stoves mailing list 

to Send a Message to the list, use the email address 
stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org 

to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page 
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org 

for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: 
http://www.bioenergylists.org/ 

-- 
Dr. Thomas B. Reed 
The Biomass Energy Foundation 
The BioChar Engineering Corporation 
www.WoodGas.com 

_______________________________________________ 
Stoves mailing list 

to Send a Message to the list, use the email address 
stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org 

to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page 
http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org 

for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site: 
http://www.bioenergylists.org/ 

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20110416/7bfd9c85/attachment.html>