Yury,
This stoves discussion group is for cooking stoves for developing countries, which is why were are interested in your charcoal kilns and stoves. The biochar discussions are at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar/
We have hosted the stoves discussion since 1996. Most of the several hundred people on this list are involved in developing cooking stoves or building and installing improved cook stoves in developing countries. Participants on this list have installed hundreds of thousands of stoves. We are experienced in gasification, combustion and rural and urban development. Collectively this year participants have probably installed more than 800,000 cook stoves in more than 200 countries. You will find their work linked on the stoves discussion site at www.stoves.bioenerglists.org ; Partnership for Clean Indoor Air http://www.pciaonline.org/ and others.
You will find that participants on the biochar lists, which we have hosted since 2006, are also very experienced in soils, crops, engineering, and field applications in developing countries. Biochar is one of the tools that can help development and we are working to find ways in which it can help both provide heat for cooking and char to improve soil fertility.
So discussion about improved biomass cooking stoves belongs on this list. Discussion about biochar belongs on the biochar lists unless you are making biochar with a cooking stove.
Thanks
Tom Miles
Owner Bioenergylists.org
tmiles at trmiles.com
From: stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of user-05 at list.ru
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2011 11:20 PM
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
Subject: Re: [Stoves] [biochar] allAfrica.com: Africa: Biochar - Unfulfilled Promises in Cameroon
Andrew C, David, Clem, Xmas Cheers, Erich, Ron, Kevin and ccs:
Biochar is not the best method of application to improve soil fertility.
The most effective method of improving soil fertility is fertilizationof green wood waste obtained during the processing of essential oils.
The amount of waste wood green compared to biochar get more.Essential oils in it are removed. This waste wood greens are an excellent material for planting and breeding Californian worm.
In addition, Africans get a well paid job, producing essential oilsfrom native trees.
Turn me into a program to improve soil fertility in Africa. I will create a perfect equipment for wood waste-free green tar, tar, taroils. It Californian worms will reproduce and velshikolepno Africawill gradually blooming and fragrant country. I'm ready now to join in this cause.
----- Original Message -----
From: rongretlarson at comcast.net
To: biochar at yahoogroups.com ; Discussion of biomass <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org> ; Kevin Chisholm <mailto:kchisholm at ca.inter.net>
Cc: Erich Knight <mailto:erichjknight at gmail.com> ; biochar-policy <mailto:biochar-policy at yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, December 27, 2011 8:01 AM
Subject: Re: [Stoves] [biochar] allAfrica.com: Africa: Biochar - Unfulfilled Promises in Cameroon
Kevin and ccs:
1. This is getting complicated - as the dialog has shifted from the BFW story on Africa/Rademakers over to the IBI material.prepared by Kelpie Wilson. My perception is that you are looking for specific information from both reports that were not intended and aren't there. So I see no reason to respond to your questions about Kelpie's IBI work .
2. The BFW story was covered on the biochar lists about a month ago; see:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar-production/message/833
It is unfortunate that this story is started over again on the stoves list. It doesn't belong - there is zero stoves aspect to the BFW story..
3. I look forward to hearing your reaction to the selected quotes from BFW's report - which I presume you have not yet read.
Ron
:
_____
From: "Kevin C" <kchisholm at ca.inter.net>
To: biochar at yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, December 26, 2011 8:37:12 AM
Subject: Re: [biochar] [Stoves] allAfrica.com: Africa: Biochar - Unfulfilled Promises in Cameroon
Dear Erich
Quoting Erich Knight <erichjknight at gmail.com <mailto:erichjknight%40gmail.com> >:
> The Black Market speaks louder than words;
> What better positive proof than the section about the dark side of our
> nature, the thieft of the biochar corn, believed to be some new breed of
> magic bean, I believe the judgement of the blackmarket has a lot to say
> about the true results of this effort.
> I would like to see how many participants were excluded from the project
> because of this.
> This BFW report on Lauren's work only looks bad to folks who don't have an
> appreciation of the communication and infrastructural problems of
> working in Africa. He tried to enroll 1500, got less, but the smiling faces
> holding up the corn root balls is irrefutable to me.
# OK!! That is wonderful!! What specifically was it that those who had
good results do, that was good, and what specifically did those with
bad results do, that was bad? It might have been that those who had
the good results put on more than the usual amount of compost and
fertilizer, and watered their crops adequately, while those with the
poor results simply added biochar alone, and did not water the crop
adequately. From the Report, we just don't know.
>
> In response, ( if I had the author's email ) , I would send her the soil
> testing work in Kenya, Uganda and the work
> Pro-Natura has done across the global south.
# Does it tell specifically how much of biochar, compost, fertilizer
to add per square meter, for the soils in that area? Does the Report
tell whether or not the treatment is an economically sound move for
the Farmer? If I was a poor Farmer, with limited resources, such
information would be very valuable to me.
>
> *Biochar Work** in Nine Developing Countries:
> *http://www.biochar-international.org/9country*
# The above Report is all about experiemnts underway now. There are no
results showing the circumstances, if any, under which biochar would
be a sensible investment for a poor Farmer. Please let us know when
results from these 9 tests are available.
>
> World Bank Study:* The survey data from 150 biochar projects located in 38
> developing countries is available now on the IBI website at:
> http://www.biochar-international.org/sites/default/files/IBI_Survey_5-11-11_online.pdf<http://org2.democracyinaction.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2 <http://org2.democracyinaction.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=0EjclpuNkm8%2Be%2B4l0rwVIf1odzqaGaMk> &c=0EjclpuNkm8%2Be%2B4l0rwVIf1odzqaGaMk>
> .
# If I was a poor Farmer, and read this latter report, it would be
interesting, but it would suggest that biochar is still very much in
the experimental phase, and I would not wish to spend my meagre
resources on something that was not proven.
Best wishes,
Kevin Chisholm
>
> Xmas Cheers,
> Erich
>
>
> *On Behalf Of *Kevin C
>
>> *Sent:* Sunday, December 25, 2011 11:00 PM
>> *To:* biochar at yahoogroups.com <mailto:biochar%40yahoogroups.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [biochar] [Stoves] allAfrica.com: Africa: Biochar -
>> Unfulfilled Promises in Cameroon****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> ****
>>
>> Dear David and Clem
>>
>> It is just as wrong to falsely condemn biochar as being ineffective as
>> it is to falsely praise biochar as being effective.
>>
>> The Cameroon Report tells of a series of tests that turned out badly.
>> If this is a true report of a biochar test, then biochar supporters
>> should have great concerns. The issue here is: Is the report correct
>> or not? It is very wrong to criticize the report simply because it
>> reports results which we do not like to hear.
>>
>> So, if you wish to criticize this report, it would be very helpful to
>> do so, but to do so in a helpful manner, you must show where it is
>> wrong.
>> * Was data falsified?
>> * Was poor testing protocol followed?
>> * Were the soil circumstances inappropriate for the use of biochar?
>> * Was the test work competently managed and executed?
>> * Etc...
>>
>> It would be very surprising indeed if every single biochar test was a
>> resounding success, and it would be equally surprising if every single
>> biochar test was a failure. I am sure that there are circumstances
>> where the use of biochar is appropriate, and I am equally sure that
>> there are circumstances where biochar is inapropriate.
>>
>> My problem is just that: I don't know where to recommend biochar as
>> being appropriate, and I don't know where to recommend it as being
>> inappropriate.
>>
>> Can you help me, and everyone else who would like to use biochar, if
>> it made economic sense?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Kevin Chisholm
>>
>> Quoting David Yarrow <dyarrow5 at gmail.com <mailto:dyarrow5%40gmail.com> >:
>>
>> > hear, hear, clement.
>> > beware the hidden agenda funded by invisible enemies.
>> > these people do not use honest reason or plain facts to advance
>> > their charges.
>> > their motivation is not rational or reasonable.
>> > beware the smokescreen.
>> > ~dancing dragonfly
>> >
>> > On Dec 26, 2011, at 1:22 AM, Clement Aigbogun wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Can you please explain to the list why you are making a suble
>> condemnation
>> >> Of something you have not tried yourself?
>> >> You must have a hidden agenda.I have tried biochar on soil and
>> >> plant and I tell you it produce
>> >> Excellent results.
>> >> Please try and experiment with biochar before making any
>> >> pronouncement about it.
>> >> Clement
>> >> Nigeria
>> >> PS- feel free to ask me sincere questions about biochar and its
>> >> uses and I shall provide
>> >> Answers based on my ongoing experiment on biochar utilisation.
>> >> I would provide useful answers if you are polite and not just
>> >> trying to bring down a useful idea because of you hidden agenda
>> >>
>> >> ----------------------------On Sun, Dec 25, 2011 5:40 PM GMT-12:00
>> >> Andrew C. Parker wrote:>Could someone please post this to the
>> >> Biochar
>> >>
>> list?>><http://allafrica.com/stories/printable/201112160395.html>>>_______________________________________________>Stoves
>> mailing list>>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address>
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>> >> site:>http://www.bioenergylists.org/>>
>> >>
>> >
>> >****
>>
>> ****
>>
>>
>>
>
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