[Stoves] [biochar] allAfrica.com: Africa: Biochar - Unfulfilled Promises in Cameroon

Tue Dec 27 03:01:42 CST 2011

Quoting rongretlarson at comcast.net:

> Kevin and ccs:
>
> 1. This is getting complicated - as the dialog has shifted from the  
> BFW story on Africa/Rademakers over to the IBI material.prepared by  
> Kelpie Wilson. My perception is that you are looking for specific  
> information from both reports that were not intended and aren't  
> there. So I see no reason to respond to your questions about  
> Kelpie's IBI work .

# This is not complicated at all:
a: BFW presents a report on biochar tests
b. "Defenders of the Faith" demonize BFW, rather than showing where  
their Report is wrong in a factual, scientific, and professional manner.
c: I made no mention of Kelpie's work.
d: You would appear to be clouding the issue, to avoid dealing with  
the matter in a factual way. I am amused that you criticize me for  
asking for information that is not in the report, and which the report  
did not intend to convey (why the corn with biochar grew so well), yet  
you do not criticize Erich when he assumes that it was the biochar,  
and not other conditions, that made the corn grow so well. (more  
water, fertilizer, organic matter, manure, compost, better soil in  
general, better test management, etc.)
>
> 2. The BFW story was covered on the biochar lists about a month ago; see:
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/biochar-production/message/833
> It is unfortunate that this story is started over again on the  
> stoves list. It doesn't belong - there is zero stoves aspect to the  
> BFW story..

# You yourself are using the Stoves List as a way to promote biochar  
production! How can you possibly say that the Article has no relevance  
to Stoves? If the BFW Article has a valid basis, then it would suggest  
that the potential for biochar is diminished. Nobody so far has  
refuted their article in a rational manner. Can you?
>
> 3. I look forward to hearing your reaction to the selected quotes  
> from BFW's report - which I presume you have not yet read.

# I have read the BFW Report. What are the "Selected Quotes" to which  
you refer?

Best wishes for a happy and Prosperous 2012

Kevin
>
> Ron
> :
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kevin C" <kchisholm at ca.inter.net>
> To: biochar at yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Monday, December 26, 2011 8:37:12 AM
> Subject: Re: [biochar] [Stoves] allAfrica.com: Africa: Biochar -  
> Unfulfilled Promises in Cameroon
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Dear Erich
> Quoting Erich Knight < erichjknight at gmail.com >:
>
>> The Black Market speaks louder than words;
>> What better positive proof than the section about the dark side of our
>> nature, the thieft of the biochar corn, believed to be some new breed of
>> magic bean, I believe the judgement of the blackmarket has a lot to say
>> about the true results of this effort.
>> I would like to see how many participants were excluded from the project
>> because of this.
>> This BFW report on Lauren's work only looks bad to folks who don't have an
>> appreciation of the communication and infrastructural problems of
>> working in Africa. He tried to enroll 1500, got less, but the smiling faces
>> holding up the corn root balls is irrefutable to me.
>
> # OK!! That is wonderful!! What specifically was it that those who had
> good results do, that was good, and what specifically did those with
> bad results do, that was bad? It might have been that those who had
> the good results put on more than the usual amount of compost and
> fertilizer, and watered their crops adequately, while those with the
> poor results simply added biochar alone, and did not water the crop
> adequately. From the Report, we just don't know.
>>
>> In response, ( if I had the author's email ) , I would send her the soil
>> testing work in Kenya, Uganda and the work
>> Pro-Natura has done across the global south.
>
> # Does it tell specifically how much of biochar, compost, fertilizer
> to add per square meter, for the soils in that area? Does the Report
> tell whether or not the treatment is an economically sound move for
> the Farmer? If I was a poor Farmer, with limited resources, such
> information would be very valuable to me.
>>
>> *Biochar Work** in Nine Developing Countries:
>> * http://www.biochar-international.org/9country*
>
> # The above Report is all about experiemnts underway now. There are no
> results showing the circumstances, if any, under which biochar would
> be a sensible investment for a poor Farmer. Please let us know when
> results from these 9 tests are available.
>>
>> World Bank Study:* The survey data from 150 biochar projects located in 38
>> developing countries is available now on the IBI website at:
>> http://www.biochar-international.org/sites/default/files/IBI_Survey_5-11-11_online.pdf < http://org2.democracyinaction.org/dia/track.jsp?v=2&c=0EjclpuNkm8%2Be%2B4l0rwVIf1odzqaGaMk  
>> >
>> .
> # If I was a poor Farmer, and read this latter report, it would be
> interesting, but it would suggest that biochar is still very much in
> the experimental phase, and I would not wish to spend my meagre
> resources on something that was not proven.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Kevin Chisholm
>
>>
>> Xmas Cheers,
>> Erich
>>
>>
>> *On Behalf Of *Kevin C
>>
>>> *Sent:* Sunday, December 25, 2011 11:00 PM
>>> *To:* biochar at yahoogroups.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [biochar] [Stoves] allAfrica.com: Africa: Biochar -
>>> Unfulfilled Promises in Cameroon****
>>>
>>> ** **
>>>
>>> ****
>>>
>>> Dear David and Clem
>>>
>>> It is just as wrong to falsely condemn biochar as being ineffective as
>>> it is to falsely praise biochar as being effective.
>>>
>>> The Cameroon Report tells of a series of tests that turned out badly.
>>> If this is a true report of a biochar test, then biochar supporters
>>> should have great concerns. The issue here is: Is the report correct
>>> or not? It is very wrong to criticize the report simply because it
>>> reports results which we do not like to hear.
>>>
>>> So, if you wish to criticize this report, it would be very helpful to
>>> do so, but to do so in a helpful manner, you must show where it is
>>> wrong.
>>> * Was data falsified?
>>> * Was poor testing protocol followed?
>>> * Were the soil circumstances inappropriate for the use of biochar?
>>> * Was the test work competently managed and executed?
>>> * Etc...
>>>
>>> It would be very surprising indeed if every single biochar test was a
>>> resounding success, and it would be equally surprising if every single
>>> biochar test was a failure. I am sure that there are circumstances
>>> where the use of biochar is appropriate, and I am equally sure that
>>> there are circumstances where biochar is inapropriate.
>>>
>>> My problem is just that: I don't know where to recommend biochar as
>>> being appropriate, and I don't know where to recommend it as being
>>> inappropriate.
>>>
>>> Can you help me, and everyone else who would like to use biochar, if
>>> it made economic sense?
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>>
>>> Kevin Chisholm
>>>
>>> Quoting David Yarrow < dyarrow5 at gmail.com >:
>>>
>>> > hear, hear, clement.
>>> > beware the hidden agenda funded by invisible enemies.
>>> > these people do not use honest reason or plain facts to advance
>>> > their charges.
>>> > their motivation is not rational or reasonable.
>>> > beware the smokescreen.
>>> > ~dancing dragonfly
>>> >
>>> > On Dec 26, 2011, at 1:22 AM, Clement Aigbogun wrote:
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> Can you please explain to the list why you are making a suble
>>> condemnation
>>> >> Of something you have not tried yourself?
>>> >> You must have a hidden agenda.I have tried biochar on soil and
>>> >> plant and I tell you it produce
>>> >> Excellent results.
>>> >> Please try and experiment with biochar before making any
>>> >> pronouncement about it.
>>> >> Clement
>>> >> Nigeria
>>> >> PS- feel free to ask me sincere questions about biochar and its
>>> >> uses and I shall provide
>>> >> Answers based on my ongoing experiment on biochar utilisation.
>>> >> I would provide useful answers if you are polite and not just
>>> >> trying to bring down a useful idea because of you hidden agenda
>>> >>
>>> >> ----------------------------On Sun, Dec 25, 2011 5:40 PM GMT-12:00
>>> >> Andrew C. Parker wrote:>Could someone please post this to the
>>> >> Biochar
>>> >>
>>> list?>>< http://allafrica.com/stories/printable/201112160395.html  
>>> >>>_______________________________________________>Stoves
>>> mailing list>>to Send a Message to the list, use the email address>
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>>> >.org>>for
>>> more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web
>>> >> site:> http://www.bioenergylists.org/ >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >****
>>>
>>> ****
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
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