[Stoves] What is poor?

[Fireside Hearth]

 Xavier.....

        Some folks think I am completely out of my mind....and maybe I am. My silly stove is built like a bomb shelter. I doubt I will ever sell anyone a second one because of life cycle....maybe because they like one so much they found reason to have another. My cost is hovering around $1700.00/unit. I have recently decided to thin down my casing, cook top, and combustion chamber walls a bit to improve heat transfer, as well as using a less expensive stainless steel. I just can't seem to destroy one of these darn things. My move is based on overall heat output, weight, and portability....not cost. I do think we will gain performance and save some money at the same time, however one of my goals is to stop throwing useful materials in the land fill. As a stove dealer I sold and installed thousands of units. I also saw folks dumping old ones in the water for anchors, or in the land fill. This just kills me. Most of the stoves I installed as early as 1986 are still in use. I did not have much for the "low" end customers. These folks who bought cheap have replaced their stoves 1 or 2 times. To me this just means that more energy was expended in manufacturing, shipping, transportation of workers, making of raw materials......the list goes on, and on, and on.
       To promote the sale of stoves which would last one or two years, I believe, is completely contrary to our "community" quest of "saving the planet". If it "costs" too much to use good materials.......why bother? one way or the other we still use up far too much resources to attain the end result, might as well burn the Amazon in a year. I have bought cheap ass tools from china for example. In fact I bought 4 sets of socket wrenches, one for the home, business, car, truck. Three out of four broke within two weeks, sure the warranty replaced them, and into the dump they went.....wonderful. It was a better buy spending the extra money to get the craftsman set made in the usa....sorry.
I then got a really expensive set from snap on. I like the craftsman better.
       My long winded point is that we need to stop thinking short term, and weigh in ALL the factors. Yes my stove will NEVER get to these impoverished nations unless I can either subsidize it myself, or find another way of manufacturing.......like regionally, using regional business owners who will do for others in order to do for themselves. But to sell cheap crap that serves a short life span might have just as much long term damage as no action at all.

        Respectfully, 

                   Roger and Bridget Lehet
                    Unforgettable Fire LLC
                   Fireside Hearth Shoppe

> From: xvr.brandao at gmail.com
> To: stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2011 06:36:23 +0100
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] What is poor?
> 
> Roger said:
> "I think that the end price of a better built unit is better "overall" as
> planned obsolescence costs the environment far more than dollars".
> You may be right, it may not be a good solution, it needs to be estimated.
> It is not planned obsolescence since the goal is not to have an obsolete
> product, and make people buy more. The goal is to make them use something
> they wouldn't have used, even if it means selling a short life-span stove to
> greatly bring down costs.
> 
> Overall costs including environmental costs need to be estimated. Maybe we
> can allow the stove to be repairable by local welders? If not, we have to
> make sure the materials can be reused on the local market. Ceramics in
> stoves can be sold (or can it?) to ceramic makers, they use it in the
> production process. Old sheet metal can be sold to people who ship it, to
> Europe I think, and then it is recycled. The question is : to what extent
> will people spontaneously do it rather than dump the old stove in the
> nature?
> Perhaps customers could deposit the old stove when they buy a new one (just
> like a glass bottle ...). Then the producer needs to figure out if it is
> possible to recollect and recycle the used stoves, if it is viable on an
> economic point of view. Difficult if the factory is overseas, and because
> the stove has such a small economic value.
> 
> Xavier
> 
> 
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