[Stoves] Combining stoves, bioliquidfuels, and Biochar - Possible for all together?
nari phaltan
nariphaltan at gmail.com
Fri Aug 10 23:37:12 CDT 2012
*Dear Stovers,*
*
*
*Just to keep the record straight, we have been working on ethanol lanterns
and stoves since 1980s. Stovers might be interested in the following
publications.*
*
*
*www.nariphaltan.org/ruralethanol.pdf*
*
*
*www.nariphaltan.org/sorghum.pdf*
*
*
*www.nariphaltan.org/housenergy.htm*
*
*
*www.nariphaltan.org/lanstove.pdf*
*
*
*www.nariphaltan.org/ethstove.pdf This stove is being produced on large
scale in Indonesia for sales in ASEAN countries.*
*
*
*Cheers.*
*
*
*Anil
*
On Sat, Aug 11, 2012 at 9:30 AM, Lloyd Helferty <lhelferty at sympatico.ca>wrote:
> Ron,
>
> I have also corresponded quite extensively with Mr. Harry Stokes a
> couple of years ago at about the time I was supporting Nathaniel Mulcahy
> and his initial Stove project work in Haiti after the earthquake.
>
> Harry had noted at the time that 3 billion liters of hydrous ethanol are
> traded through the Caribbean from Brazil every year, yet he had noted that
> there are a number of major ethanol producers in Central America and the
> Caribbean who are constrained to consistently under-produce because of the
> want of a market.
>
> He noted that " *If these countries could produce and sell into a
> domestic stove fuel market, they could again produce for a market that
> would justify a robust agricultural base. With a healthy agricultural
> sector and the application of best practices, they could rebuild their
> soils and croplands, which now lie fallow.*"
> (This was Harry's "Build Back Better" approach... as was being promoted
> by Bill Clinton after the earthquake: a pathway to sustainability for
> Haiti.)
>
> At the time I was also in conversation with Roger Samson of REAP Canada,
> and I had suggested to Mr. Stokes that he might also wish to consider using
> Agave was as the feedstock for producing liquid fuels (ethanol etc), which,
> according to Arturo Velez, can produce 3X more sugars than sugarcane, while
> thriving on drylands / "marginal land" (it thrives with only 190mm of rain
> per year and can produce very high yields with very low or no inputs) and
> could potentially achieve massive production due to year-around harvesting
> and World-wide geographical distribution (Drylands cover about 40% of the
> Earth's surface; >60 million square Km, @ ~20% of US territory and >75% of
> Mexico).
> [Harry had suggested Sweet sorghum instead since it is a dryland crop
> that builds soil fertility very effectively. ~ I believe that he was also
> working with the International Institute for Ecological Agriculture (IIEA)
> and looking into other 'dryland' feedstocks such as Giant Milkweed and
> Prosopis (mesquite).]
>
> While Harry was working with a core team of developers to raise capital
> for a business that would essentially mass produce small, efficient, simple
> but highly engineered "micro distilleries" (for places like Haiti), I had
> noted that the leftover "bagasse" from these distilleries could also be
> used to make Biochar.
>
> I had originally suggested that the enormous amounts of bagasse that
> result from the production of sustainable alcohols from drylands feedstocks
> could be processed in such a way as to produce other liquid fuels
> (bio-oils) industrially (in systems such as those produced by companies
> like Agritherm, ABRI Tech or Ensyn) -- such that massive quantities of both
> bio-oil and Biochar could be produced (and sequestered)... however, if
> CPB could also convert this bagasse into another type of liquid fuel (the
> 'N100' that could in turn be used in engines and other types of bio-liquid
> fuel stoves), we could truly achieve very substantial "carbon negativity".
>
> Regards,
>
> Lloyd Helferty, Engineering Technologist
> Principal, Biochar Consulting (Canada)
> www.biochar-consulting.ca
> 48 Suncrest Blvd, Thornhill, ON, Canada
> 905-707-8754
> CELL: 647-886-8754
> Skype: lloyd.helferty
> Steering Committee coordinator
> Canadian Biochar Initiative (CBI)
> President, Co-founder & CBI Liaison, Biochar-Ontario
> Partner of Toronto Urban Ag Summit! www.urbanagsummit.org
> See also: http://www.facebook.com/UrbanAgSummit
> Manager, Biochar Offsets Group:
> http://www.linkedin.com/groups?home=&gid=2446475
> Advisory Committee Member, IBI
> http://www.linkedin.com/groups?gid=1404717
> http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=42237506675
> http://groups.google.com/group/biochar-ontario
> http://www.meetup.com/biocharontario/
> http://www.biocharontario.ca
> www.biochar.ca
>
> "The history of every nation is eventually written in the way it cares for its soil."
> - Franklin D. Roosevelt
>
>
> On 2012-08-10 5:24 PM, rongretlarson at comcast.net wrote:
>
> List:
>
> 1. A short time ago, I sent in a brief announcement (below) about
> Harry Stokes. Without committing him, I think he supports the following
> as a new way to obtain and promote this list's emphasis: improved biomass
> stoves for developing countries.
>
> 2. The following idea naturally follows from last week's successful
> Biochar conference in Sonoma. This conference has been discussed some on
> the sister Biochar lists, but not here, although there were several persons
> presenting there on stoves. Presumably most stoves list members interested
> in Biochar already know all about that other list - but for others, I
> recommend a look at this site (save it - it doesn't pop up in Google
> searches)
>
> http://2012.biochar.us.com/299/2012-us-biochar-conference-presentations
>
> 3. For many at the conference, I think the most important new Biochar
> material related to a new company, that had not presented previously at
> Biochar meetings (probably because they are better known as a biofuels
> company). But they advertise a fuel they call N100 - which means 100
> Percent as much carbon negativity as carbon neutrality. I think the main
> buzz was because they are well funded by some very big players. This and a
> bit more (I recommend the 14 minute video by corporate founder Mike Cheiky)
> on the company (shorthand CPB) are at:
> www.coolplanetbiofuels.com
>
> 4. There was no discussion at the Sonoma meeting nor is there any
> discussion at the CPB web site of using their biofuel product for our list
> interest: rural biomass cookstoves. Emphasizing their bioliquids also for
> stoves could be a big winner - along the lines of what Harry Stokes has
> been doing. The big difference from Stokes' work is that char and carbon
> negativity automatically follow with use of the CPB fuels - not possible
> with any other bioliquidfuel I am aware of. I emphasize "automatic" -
> the char is a left-over but can contain half the initial carbon (30% char
> by weight is being stated). Surprisingly, there is very little release of
> CO2 during production, and some or much is exothermic.
>
> 5. The CPB website gives plenty of reasons they can be successful -
> but none related to stoves. My reasons for thinking that their's could be
> a successful approach for stove use are:
> a. The CPB biofuel is already being planned to be produced in
> developing countries. Rather than importing fossil kerosene, LPG, propane,
> etc with inevitably rising prices - the CPB fuels will be least cost at the
> point of manufacture, near to the stove users. Maybe even able to use a
> biofuel for cooking that is slightly substandard for engines.
> b. Char-making stoves have many positive attributes (that I have
> been promoting for 17 + years), but a bioliquids fuel approach can probably
> always be cleaner, more adjustable (turn-down ratio), be adaptable to
> multiple pots and will not be batch-limited.
> c. Char-making stoves will hopefully soon be eligible for carbon
> credits, but dealing with small single family or even village scale
> auditing violates all we know about existing credit hurdles. A large
> entity (CPB or someone they sell equipment to) will already be well
> equipped to work for carbon neutral credits; adding carbon negative
> credits from their co-product Biochar will be easier than for any other
> industry group I can think of.
> d. Cooks in developing countries are already choosing liquid fuel
> stoves - when they can be afforded. There are existing supply chains for
> fuel and stoves. LPG fuels are already in short supply.
> e. I think it possible for the barter system that Nat Mulcahy
> (WorldStoves) has developed to also work here. A wood gatherer can
> exchange the raw materials for a bioliquid - and (a guess?) do less wood
> gathering than at present. This time savings will be complemented by time
> savings while cooking with a liquid fuel. And health issues. The same
> firm supplying the CPB carbon-negative biofuel can also supply a
> (hopefully) low cost (and probably pre-primed) Biochar with the same barter
> exchange of ag wastes, etc.
> f. Char-making stoves work best in a rural environment. But the
> majority of potential users of any future carbon negative biofuel are now
> living in cities - where the price competition for a carbon negative form
> of cooking is easiest
> g. Lastly and most important to me - I have argued strongly on
> this list for a total prohibition of charcoal-using stoves because they are
> so wasteful. This approach could help in policing the presently largely
> illegal production of char. Since CPB will be precharging their char for
> ag purposes, it would be incredibly stupid to burn that char. Char for ag
> use is likely to look more different as well as just being too small for
> cooking.
>
> 6. What should be the impact of the above on other stove types discussed
> on this list?
> a. I think this biofuels approach might help as a backup for solar
> cookers. Biomass supply will always be insufficient if we get serious
> about excess atmospheric carbon - so a combined solar-liquids approach
> could be a least cost approach.
> b. Of course, I hope a biofuel stove kills all use of fossil fuels
> for cooking or heating - because of my perceived need to get quickly to 350
> ppm. My hope would be that coal use in Ulan Bataa, for instance, might
> prove to be more expensive than the use of wood from northern Mongolia,
> since the biofuel being moved is so energy dense, easily stored, cleaner,
> etc.
> The use of existing propane, natural gas, kerosene, etc stoves will be
> killed only if the CPB fuels are cheaper - and this seems likely eventually
> if not right now (according to the CPB website).
> c. I think liquid-fueled stoves are likely to prove much better in
> all regards to all present wood-burning (including Rocket stoves) re cost,
> air quality, efficiency, etc, if the assumptions above hold (on time spent
> looking for fuel, etc). This needs more analysis.
> d. Cooking using methane from biodigesters might be a close call.
> Those stoves are not generating the char that I find so important, but
> putting char in digesters for "conditioning" seems very promising. The
> main difference could be in the perception of the time being used each way.
> e. As to char-making stoves, the improvement is not so obvious for
> rural cooks having plenty of wood, time, and need for char. Regardless, it
> is better to have multiple options and there will be many countries or
> parts of countries, that wouldn't see internal generation of a carbon
> negative biofuel for a long time. A huge market therefore remains for
> char-making stoves. And something may not be correct in this initial
> review of what looks like a promising addition to our list topic - cooking
> with biomass.
>
> 7. So this is to request your reaction to pushing this different way to
> promote Biochar production and use in family cooking in developing
> countries. I will forward your thoughts to CPB. There could be
> companies formed around this idea and I hope there are. I won't be doing
> so. For me, the basic question is whether more Biochar might be put in
> the ground if cooking were done with liquids made from biomass, rather
> than cooking with that same biomass in any other type of stove.
>
> Ron
>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *rongretlarson at comcast.net
> *To: *"Discussion of biomass" <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org><stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> *Cc: *hstokes at projectgaia.com
> *Sent: *Friday, August 10, 2012 12:26:24 PM
> *Subject: *[Stoves] Award for Harry Stokes
>
> List:
>
> For a different reason that I will write on soon, I was searching some
> (excellent) stove material on Harry's web site, and found notice of his
> winning a prestigious bioenergy 2012 award. See
>
> http://www.projectgaia.com/blog/2012/06/06/pgi-executive-director-harry-stokes-selected-as-2012-world-bioenergy-award-winner/
>
> I first met Harry at the (first in 2000?) stove conference in Pune,
> India. Harry's specialty - almost alone - is in pushing liquid fuels
> (mostly ethanol and methanol) for cooking in developing countries. He is,
> of course, emphasizing those fuels from biomass rather than fossil
> sources. Look at his web site for some of the projects now underway.
>
> Congratulations to a well-deserving winner.
>
> Ron
>
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--
Nimbkar Agricultural Research Institute (NARI)
Tambmal, Phaltan-Lonand Road
P.O.Box 44
Phaltan-415523, Maharashtra, India
Ph:91-2166-222396/220945
e-mail:nariphaltan at gmail.com
anilrajvanshi at gmail.com
http://www.nariphaltan.org
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