[Stoves] Equipment required for testing stoves
Paul Anderson
psanders at ilstu.edu
Wed Dec 5 01:17:52 CST 2012
Frank, Crispin and all,
For Frank's needs in testing labs in affluent countries, the suggested
methods could include the following (combining thoughts from several
contributors):
1. Dry Ice (solid CO2), Can be weighed if the CO2 is an issue.
Worth a try, but watch out for the expansion of the gases. (Usually
cooling involves contraction, but the dry ice will greatly expand.)
2. ALUMINUM disks or squares or washers. Ball have undesirable
thickness. Flat will take the heat quickly. And can be separated
easily and re-weighed if suspected char dust clinging to the objects is
a quantity of concern (unlikely).
For testing labs without access to dry ice (distribution or financial
limitations), consider the aluminum flat objects. These can be made
easily in any developing country. Melting of aluminum drink-cans will
do the job.
Also, ceramic "snuffer containers" (such as Paul Olivier's) might be
designed to receive the aluminum pieces and allow tumbling (the ceramic
will take some of the heat) and then be placed in a container with water
to further pull away the heat. Having written this, I now add: Why
bother with the weight and fragility of ceramics? Just get a metal
container (aluminum could be superior) with an appropriate lid and even
a know weight. Cooled and can be weighted inside the container.
Paul (in Kampala)
Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
Email: psanders at ilstu.edu Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: www.drtlud.com
On 12/4/2012 6:41 PM, Frank Shields wrote:
>
> Ron,
>
> I think there is a misunderstanding of my intent. The method I use in
> the lab is intended for just measuring the energy at a snap shot of
> time (WBT test ends) and then dumping the char in the dumpster. What
> you and others mention is another subject (quenching char for sale).
> The cost of water, nitrogen, argon, CO2 and other gases are a
> non-issue for the small amount we would use and we make up the cost
> from the clients wanting the tests.
>
> Thanks
>
> Frank
>
> *From:*rongretlarson at comcast.net [mailto:rongretlarson at comcast.net]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 04, 2012 3:57 PM
> *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> *Cc:* Crispin Pemberton-Pigott; Frank Shields; Elisha Moore-Delate
> *Subject:* Re: [Stoves] Equipment required for testing stoves
>
> List and ccs
>
> I haven't seen mentioned today a possible approach that might
> solve some of the indicated problems for extinguishing a char-making
> batch stove. This is the same that I mentioned to a smaller group a
> day or so ago. The idea would be to use a rock dust that one might
> want anyway for improving the char's soil augmentation properties.
> Some rock dusts are like biochar - carbon negative (as an oxide,
> hydroxide, sulfate etc changes with time over to a carbonate).
>
> It would be simple to weigh (maybe just measure the volume of) the
> rock dust placed on top of the hot char to block air flow. If char
> is eligible for carbon credits, then the combination should be worth
> even more (the exact ratio of credits needs work).
>
> A white "quenching" powder might even get additional credits for
> improving the albedo.
>
> I think we are in agreement that we don't want to use water,
> nitrogen (costly) or CO2 (costly), but I think dirt (or sand/clay, etc
> - as suggested by Elisha) is also OK - as long as we weigh the amount
> used to extinguish. When one needs to measure and characterize the
> char, then a "vase" technique like Paul Olivier has suggested is
> probably needed. But smothering a bed of char which something that
> adds value to the char sounds easier to apply/manipulate than moving
> the hot char.
>
> I am assisting with a project to collect data on biochar and rock
> dusts (and even better their use together) in field-performance. I'd
> love to hear from anyone with such data.
>
> Ron
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *From: *"Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott at gmail.com
> <mailto:crispinpigott at gmail.com>>
> *To: *"Discussion of biomass cooking stoves"
> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>>
> *Sent: *Tuesday, December 4, 2012 3:14:13 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [Stoves] Equipment required for testing stoves
>
>
> Use an aluminum plate!
>
> One problem would be the size of the char and the fact there is
> unburned torrefied wood inside some char. It won't crush easily. It is
> a reason the error on the estimated heat value in the char is large.
>
> Regards
>
> Crispin
>
> *From:*Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Kevin
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 05, 2012 12:09 AM
> *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> *Subject:* Re: [Stoves] Equipment required for testing stoves
>
> Dear Frank
>
> What about 2 steel pie plates? Put char in one and cover with the other.
>
> If char was very hot, to enhance cooling rate, set the bottom plate on
> a paper towel soaked in water, and spray the top plate with a water mist.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> Kevin
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> *From:*Frank Shields <mailto:frank at compostlab.com>
>
> *To:*'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'
> <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>
> *Sent:*Tuesday, December 04, 2012 5:14 PM
>
> *Subject:*Re: [Stoves] Equipment required for testing stoves
>
> Paul,
>
> I like the vase. And having a pot of water on top collecting
> 'energy' as the WACW cools seems like a great method of measuring
> energy loss during the cooling that can be added on to the values
> determined from a ground and tested WACW. Wonder if that would
> work - Crispin?
>
> Frank
>
> *From:*Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Paul Olivier
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 04, 2012 12:41 PM
> *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> *Subject:* Re: [Stoves] Equipment required for testing stoves
>
> Frank,
>
> Getting an accurate dry weight of biochar is indispensable in
> being able to sell it.
> If we douse the biochar with water, then we no longer have an
> accurate measurement of dry weight.
> Also biochar right out of the gasifier contains valuable heat that
> could be used in keeping food warm.
>
> Therefore I designed a terracotta vase to contain the hot biochar.
> A pot placed on top of the vase prevents oxygen from entering.
> The vase shown in the drawing below can hold six liters of biochar.
> This is the volume of rice hull biochar produced in my 150 gasifier.
> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/150%20Gasifier/Terrecotta%20Vase/Drawing/Terracotta%20Vase.pdf
>
> Thanks.
> Paul Olivier
>
> On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 3:20 AM, Frank Shields
> <frank at compostlab.com <mailto:frank at compostlab.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi Crispin,
>
> Weighing the fuel when removed (hot and burning) and dry weight after
> soaking with water, draining (screen) and drying is not a convenient
> procedure to determine moisture left -and prone to error - but
> only method I
> can think of at the moment.
> Water puts out a fire by taking away its heat. So wondering if
> there is
> another method that could be used? Combination nitrogen gas and
> pieces of
> steel in a tumbler? Must be some way besides water.
>
> Frank
>
>
> Frank Shields
> Control Laboratories, Inc.
> 42 Hangar Way
> Watsonville, CA 95076
> (831) 724-5422 tel
> (831) 724-3188 fax
> www.biocharlab.com <http://www.biocharlab.com>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
> <mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org>] On Behalf Of
> Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 11:26 AM
> To: Stoves
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Equipment required for testing stoves
>
> Dear Frank
>
> You are on the right track, in my view. The assumed energy for the
> wood and
> char is a major source of imprecision in the test.
>
> As for quenching with water: unfortunately we need to know the
> residual
> moisture content of the fuel 'as removed'. That varies a lot
> depending on
> the stove type. Quenching it with nitrogen is an alternative.
>
> Regards
> Crispin
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Frank Shields" <frank at compostlab.com
> <mailto:frank at compostlab.com>>
> Sender: "Stoves" <stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org
> <mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org>>
> Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 10:19:39
> To: 'Discussion of biomass cooking
> stoves'<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>>
> Reply-To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>>
> Subject: [Stoves] Equipment required for testing stoves
>
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> --
> Paul A. Olivier PhD
> 27/2 Phu Dong Tieng Vuong
> Dalat
> Vietnam
>
> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
> Skype address: Xpolivier
> http://www.esrla.com/
>
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