[Stoves] Equipment required for testing stoves

Wed Dec 5 10:37:37 CST 2012

I would be wary of using aluminum - it melts around 660 C and the char in
gasifier stoves can well exceed this temperature.

Josh

On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 12:17 AM, Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu> wrote:

>  Frank, Crispin and all,
>
> For Frank's needs in testing labs in affluent countries, the suggested
> methods could include the following (combining thoughts from several
> contributors):
>
> 1.   Dry Ice   (solid CO2),   Can be weighed if the CO2 is an issue.
> Worth a try, but watch out for the expansion of the gases.   (Usually
> cooling involves contraction, but the dry ice will greatly expand.)
>
> 2.  ALUMINUM disks or squares or washers.   Ball have undesirable
> thickness.   Flat will take the heat quickly.   And can be separated easily
> and re-weighed if suspected char dust clinging to the objects is a quantity
> of concern (unlikely).
>
> For testing labs without access to dry ice (distribution or financial
> limitations), consider the aluminum flat objects.    These can be made
> easily in any developing country.   Melting of aluminum drink-cans will do
> the job.
>
> Also, ceramic "snuffer containers" (such as Paul Olivier's) might be
> designed to receive the aluminum pieces and allow tumbling (the ceramic
> will take some of the heat) and then be placed in a container with water to
> further pull away the heat.    Having written this, I now add:   Why bother
> with the weight and fragility of ceramics?   Just get a metal container
> (aluminum could be superior) with an appropriate lid and even a know
> weight.   Cooled and can be weighted inside the container.
>
> Paul     (in Kampala)
>
> Paul S. Anderson, PhD  aka "Dr TLUD"
> Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu   Skype: paultlud  Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> Website:  www.drtlud.com
>
> On 12/4/2012 6:41 PM, Frank Shields wrote:
>
>  Ron, ****
>
> I think there is a misunderstanding of my intent. The method I use in the
> lab is intended for just measuring the energy at a snap shot of time (WBT
> test ends)  and then dumping the char in the dumpster. What you and others
> mention is another subject (quenching char for sale). The cost of water,
> nitrogen, argon, CO2 and other gases are a non-issue for the small amount
> we would use and we make up the cost from the clients wanting the tests. *
> ***
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks****
>
> ** **
>
> Frank****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* rongretlarson at comcast.net [mailto:rongretlarson at comcast.net<rongretlarson at comcast.net>]
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 04, 2012 3:57 PM
> *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> *Cc:* Crispin Pemberton-Pigott; Frank Shields; Elisha Moore-Delate
> *Subject:* Re: [Stoves] Equipment required for testing stoves****
>
> ** **
>
> List and ccs
>
>     I haven't seen mentioned today a possible approach that might solve
> some of the indicated problems for extinguishing a char-making batch
> stove.  This is the same that I mentioned to a smaller group a day or so
> ago.  The idea would be to use a rock dust that one might want anyway for
> improving the char's soil augmentation properties.  Some rock dusts are
> like biochar - carbon negative (as an oxide, hydroxide, sulfate etc changes
> with time over to a carbonate).
>
>     It would be simple to weigh (maybe just measure the volume of) the
> rock dust placed on top of the hot char to block air flow.   If char is
> eligible for carbon credits, then the combination should be worth even
> more  (the exact ratio of credits needs work).
>
>    A white "quenching" powder might even get additional credits for
> improving the albedo.
>
>    I think we are in agreement that we don't want to use water, nitrogen
> (costly) or CO2 (costly), but I think dirt (or sand/clay, etc - as
> suggested by Elisha) is also OK - as long as we weigh the amount used to
> extinguish.   When one needs to measure and characterize the char, then a
> "vase" technique like Paul Olivier has suggested is probably needed.  But
> smothering a bed of char which something that adds value to the char sounds
> easier to apply/manipulate than moving the hot char.
>
>    I am assisting with a project to collect data on biochar and rock dusts
> (and even better their use together) in field-performance.  I'd love to
> hear from anyone with such data.
>
> Ron****
>  ------------------------------
>
> *From: *"Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
> *To: *"Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> *Sent: *Tuesday, December 4, 2012 3:14:13 PM
> *Subject: *Re: [Stoves] Equipment required for testing stoves
>
>
> ****
>
> Use an aluminum plate!****
>
>  ****
>
> One problem would be the size of the char and the fact there is unburned
> torrefied wood inside some char. It won’t crush easily. It is a reason the
> error on the estimated heat value in the char is large.****
>
>  ****
>
> Regards****
>
> Crispin****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org<stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org>]
> *On Behalf Of *Kevin
> *Sent:* Wednesday, December 05, 2012 12:09 AM
> *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> *Subject:* Re: [Stoves] Equipment required for testing stoves****
>
>  ****
>
> Dear Frank****
>
>  ****
>
> What about 2 steel pie plates? Put char in one and cover with the other.**
> **
>
>  ****
>
> If char was very hot, to enhance cooling rate, set the bottom plate on a
> paper towel soaked in water, and spray the top plate with a water mist. **
> **
>
>  ****
>
> Best wishes,****
>
>  ****
>
> Kevin****
>
>  ----- Original Message ----- ****
>
> *From:* Frank Shields <frank at compostlab.com> ****
>
> *To:* 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> ****
>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 04, 2012 5:14 PM****
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Stoves] Equipment required for testing stoves****
>
>  ****
>
> Paul,****
>
>  ****
>
> I like the vase. And having a pot of water on top collecting ‘energy’ as
> the WACW cools seems like a great method of measuring energy loss during
> the cooling that can be added on to the values determined from a ground and
> tested WACW. Wonder if that would work - Crispin? ****
>
>  ****
>
> Frank****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org<stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org>]
> *On Behalf Of *Paul Olivier
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 04, 2012 12:41 PM
> *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> *Subject:* Re: [Stoves] Equipment required for testing stoves****
>
>  ****
>
> Frank,
>
> Getting an accurate dry weight of biochar is indispensable in being able
> to sell it.
> If we douse the biochar with water, then we no longer have an accurate
> measurement of dry weight.
> Also biochar right out of the gasifier contains valuable heat that could
> be used in keeping food warm.
>
> Therefore I designed a terracotta vase to contain the hot biochar.
> A pot placed on top of the vase prevents oxygen from entering.
> The vase shown in the drawing below can hold six liters of biochar.
> This is the volume of rice hull biochar produced in my 150 gasifier.
>
> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/22013094/150%20Gasifier/Terrecotta%20Vase/Drawing/Terracotta%20Vase.pdf
>
> Thanks.
> Paul Olivier
>
> ****
>
> On Wed, Dec 5, 2012 at 3:20 AM, Frank Shields <frank at compostlab.com>
> wrote:****
>
> Hi Crispin,
>
> Weighing the fuel when removed (hot and burning) and dry weight after
> soaking with water, draining (screen) and drying is not a convenient
> procedure to determine moisture left -and prone to error - but only method
> I
> can think of at the moment.
> Water puts out a fire by taking away its heat. So wondering if there is
> another method that could be used? Combination nitrogen gas and pieces of
> steel in a tumbler? Must be some way besides water.
>
> Frank
>
>
> Frank Shields
> Control Laboratories, Inc.
> 42 Hangar Way
> Watsonville, CA  95076
> (831) 724-5422 tel
> (831) 724-3188 fax
> www.biocharlab.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of
> Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
> Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 11:26 AM
> To: Stoves
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Equipment required for testing stoves
>
> Dear Frank
>
> You are on the right track, in my view. The assumed energy for the wood and
> char is a major source of imprecision in the test.
>
> As for quenching with water: unfortunately we need to know the residual
> moisture content of the fuel 'as removed'. That varies a lot depending on
> the stove type. Quenching it with nitrogen is an alternative.
>
> Regards
> Crispin
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Frank Shields" <frank at compostlab.com>
> Sender: "Stoves" <stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2012 10:19:39
> To: 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
> >
> Reply-To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>         <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: [Stoves] Equipment required for testing stoves
>
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>
>
> --
> Paul A. Olivier PhD
> 27/2 Phu Dong Tieng Vuong
> Dalat
> Vietnam
>
> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
> Skype address: Xpolivier
> http://www.esrla.com/****
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-- 
Josh Kearns
PhD Candidate
Environmental Engineering
Engineering for Developing Communities
University of Colorado-Boulder

Director of Science
Aqueous Solutions
www.aqsolutions.org

Mobile: 720 989 3959
Skype: joshkearns
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