[Stoves] Basic soil--Basic info !

Sun Dec 16 19:07:40 CST 2012

Dear Tom.
the minerals in the soil have very low solubility. If soil is stirred
in water, most minerals would dissolve in water, but they show
concentration of only 2 to 15 ppm. Plants are inefficient in absorbing
minerals from such a dilute solution, but the microbes are much more
efficient. The concentration of these solutions is in dynamic
equilibrium, so that the molecules absorbed by the microbes are
immediately replaced by molecules from the pool of the undissolved
minerals going into solution. Thus there is an unlimited supply of
minerals in the soil. When one appliess high calorie organic matter to
the soil, the microbes proliferate by feeding on this carbon source.
In that process they absorb from the soil solution all the minerals
that they need. There exists in the soil a food chain, whereby the
amoebae eat the bacteria, the annelids eat the amoebae, and the
insects eat the annelids. There are also fungi in this food chain. At
each step, there is a reduction in the carbon content, which is
released into the atmosphere in the form of CO2, and a corresponding
amount of minerals are also released into the soil. These minerals,
now in the form of organic compounds, are water soluble and they are
taken up by plants. This would show you, that one has only to induce
the microbes in the soil to proliferate in order to make the minerals
available to plants. It would support all kinds of micro and
macroflora, irrespective of the category of microbes that get
multiplied. It took me several years of meditation before I could
solve this riddle.
Yours
A.D.Karve
On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 10:53 PM, Tom Miles <tmiles at trmiles.com> wrote:
> AD
>
> When the crops are fed a high caloric organic matter does that limit the
> crops to only those that are suited to those organisms? Or does organic
> farming change the soil biology to accommodate a wider range of crops?
>
> Biochar has been used as a carrier to improve or restore the populations of
> suitable organisms that have been reduced by chemical applications. Minerals
> like rock dust are sometime included in the mix.
>
> Tom
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of
> Anand Karve
> Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2012 3:36 AM
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Basic soil--Basic info !
>
> Dear Frans,
> The nature of the micro-organisms living in any given soil depends on
> the nature of the soil. If you applied sugar to a soil and incubated
> it, you would find only such organisms multiply, that can survive in
> that particular soil. Thus, if the soil is phosphate deficient, only
> phosphate solubilizing bacteria would survive in it. If the soil were
> nitrogen deficient, only nitrogen-fixing bacteria would survive in it.
> In the case of the vertisol soils in our region, the soil pH is above
> 8.5. In this soil, the iron is in a trivalent form, which is not
> available to the plants. Therefore, farmers are asked to apply iron
> sulphate to their fields. But if you applied sugar to this soil, the
> microbes that would be multiplied are those able to take up the
> trivalent iron from the soil and convert it into divalent iron. Survey
> of farmers who practice organic farming showed me, that the crops in
> such farms never show any symptoms of mineral deficiency. I thus
> realized that the mineral deficiencies in the soil are corrected by
> the soil micro-organisms. Asking farmers to apply special kinds of
> bacterial cultures to their soils for correcting the mineral
> deficiencies amounts to cheating the farmers. The necessary microbes
> are already in the soil. All one has to do is to feed them with a high
> calorie organic material, so that they multiply their numbers.
> Yours
> A.D.Karve
>
> On Sun, Dec 16, 2012 at 6:29 AM, Alex English <english at kingston.net> wrote:
>> Andrew,
>> Perhaps you have seen  solubility charts?
>>
>> http://www.avocadosource.com/tools/fertcalc_files/ph.htm
>> It is slightly different for soiless media.
>> Very much a chemist's take on soil fertility.
>>
>> Alex
>>
>>
>> On 15/12/2012 5:20 PM, ajheggie at gmail.com wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Frans, good to see your contribution.
>>>
>>>   On Sat, 15 Dec 2012 22:22:03 +0100,"Frans Peeters"
>>> <peetersfrans at telenet.be> wrote:
>>>
>>>>         Basic soil needs humus to bring pH 8,5 to 6,5
>>>
>>> This is because humus (humic acid?) is acidic but so will low
>>> temperature char that  still contains pyroligneous chemicals??
>>>>
>>>> Basic soil by Ca exess has lack of Mg take up to form Chlorofil leef
>>>> green
>>>> .Result yellow leaves .
>>>
>>> Ye Ca inhibits take up of magnesium, we have it once roots reach the
>>> chalk on thin soils here, it's known as lime induced chlorosis.
>>>>
>>>> Char has no chemical effect .
>>>
>>> The carbon in char is inert but presumably its the ash associated with
>>> the carbon matrix that makes high temperature char basic.
>>>>
>>>> Sometimes water and minerals into the char are usefull at pH 5,5 -7.
>>>
>>> Could you expand on that?
>>>>
>>>> Basic soil makes trace minerals unsoluble and not avaiable to take up .
>>>>
>>>> Zn and Se can profit of basic soil .
>>>>
>>>> Too acid under pH 5 dissoves Aluminium from clay ,a plant killer .
>>>>
>>> I take from that that if the soil becomes too acid the aluminium
>>> becomes labile and available, hence it kills the plants.
>>>
>>> So similarly if the soil is too basic it makes zinc and selenium
>>> unavailable?
>>>
>>> AJH
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> Frans
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Stoves mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists
> .org
>>
>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>>
>
>
>
> --
> ***
> Dr. A.D. Karve
> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists
> .org
>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>


-- 
***
Dr. A.D. Karve
Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)