[Stoves] the 150 gasifier in operation in Vietnam (Matt Redmond)
Paul Olivier
paul.olivier at esrla.com
Tue Mar 6 18:24:49 CST 2012
Matthew,
You say:
*Silicon Carbide seems like a reasonable mesh choice - chemically stable
and able to withstand high temperatures. It even has a higher emissivity
than stainless steels in the 0.7-10 micron wavelength range (red visible
light - mid-IR range), meaning that it will emit more EM radiation than a
stainless steel at the same temperature.
http://www.pyrometry.com/emissivity_materials.php
*
You say that silicon carbide has a higher emissivity and will emit more EM
radiation at the same temperature than stainless steel.
I think that this is the critical point: how to get more radiation at the
same temperature.
Thanks.
Paul
On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 8:54 PM, Matthew Redmond <mredmond3 at gatech.edu>wrote:
> Kevin,
>
> You make a good point about both temperature and atmosphere being
> important as to whether a material will oxidize. If there was 0% oxygen
> available, oxidation would not occur even at high temperatures. However,
> when the stove is turned off, the wire mesh would still be very hot, and
> probably able to oxidize in atmospheric air.
>
> Silicon Carbide seems like a reasonable mesh choice - chemically stable
> and able to withstand high temperatures. It even has a higher emissivity
> than stainless steels in the 0.7-10 micron wavelength range (red visible
> light - mid-IR range), meaning that it will emit more EM radiation than a
> stainless steel at the same temperature.
> http://www.pyrometry.com/emissivity_materials.php
>
> I was able to find some Silicon Carbide meshes using a google search for
> "silicon carbide mesh". Note they are not called wire meshes, but are just
> called meshes. They are a bit expensive, though.
>
> Perhaps some inspiration can be taken from lanterns used for camping?
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_mantle
>
> -Matt Redmond
>
> On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 11:23 PM, <stoves-request at lists.bioenergylists.org>wrote:
>
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: the 150 gasifier in operation in Vietnam (Anand Karve)
>> 2. Re: the 150 gasifier in operation in Vietnam (Paul Olivier)
>> 3. Re: the 150 gasifier in operation in Vietnam (Anand Karve)
>> 4. Re: the 150 gasifier in operation in Vietnam (Paul Olivier)
>> 5. Re: the 150 gasifier in operation in Vietnam (Kevin)
>> 6. Re: the 150 gasifier in operation in Vietnam (Paul Olivier)
>> 7. Re: the 150 gasifier in operation in Vietnam (Andrew C. Parker)
>> 8. Re: the 150 gasifier in operation in Vietnam (Kevin)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 11:54:04 +0800
>> From: Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com>
>> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] the 150 gasifier in operation in Vietnam
>> Message-ID:
>> <
>> CACPy7SfmvGjavu+QG0YeJfgQi6FaajbzspBuaYKef-wOTsgzeg at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Dear Paul,
>> even stainless steel is no good. At high temperature, it corrodes and
>> crumbles into pieces.
>> Yours
>> A.D.Karve
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 4:03 PM, Steve Taylor
>> <steve at thetaylorfamily.org.uk>wrote:
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > On 5 March 2012 02:56, Paul Olivier <paul.olivier at esrla.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >> I know that a tungsten wire mesh exists.
>> >> But no doubt this would be too expensive.
>> >>
>> >>
>> > Tungsten will oxidise to nothing very quickly. Probably Incoloy would be
>> > ideal
>> >
>> > Steve
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Stoves mailing list
>> >
>> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
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>> >
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>> >
>> >
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>> >
>> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>> > http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> ***
>> Dr. A.D. Karve
>> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 10:58:50 +0700
>> From: Paul Olivier <paul.olivier at esrla.com>
>> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] the 150 gasifier in operation in Vietnam
>> Message-ID:
>> <
>> CAOreFvY6_NnqqWAKBTE2egbYKVrHWWSNBCNe63SRY_7d0ZpDNA at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> A.D.,
>>
>> I am looking for a 446 stainless steel wire mesh.
>> Have you ever worked with silicon carbide mesh?
>> It is used as an emitter in thermophotovoltaics.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 10:54 AM, Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Dear Paul,
>> > even stainless steel is no good. At high temperature, it corrodes and
>> > crumbles into pieces.
>> > Yours
>> > A.D.Karve
>> >
>> > On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 4:03 PM, Steve Taylor <
>> steve at thetaylorfamily.org.uk
>> > > wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 5 March 2012 02:56, Paul Olivier <paul.olivier at esrla.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>> I know that a tungsten wire mesh exists.
>> >>> But no doubt this would be too expensive.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >> Tungsten will oxidise to nothing very quickly. Probably Incoloy would
>> be
>> >> ideal
>> >>
>> >> Steve
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Stoves mailing list
>> >>
>> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> >> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >>
>> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>> >>
>> >>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >>
>> >> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web
>> site:
>> >> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > ***
>> > Dr. A.D. Karve
>> > Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute
>> (ARTI)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Stoves mailing list
>> >
>> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >
>> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
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>> >
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>> >
>> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>> > http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Paul A. Olivier PhD
>> 27C Pham Hong Thai Street
>> Dalat
>> Vietnam
>>
>> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
>> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
>> Skype address: Xpolivier
>> http://www.esrla.com/
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 12:02:16 +0800
>> From: Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com>
>> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] the 150 gasifier in operation in Vietnam
>> Message-ID:
>> <CACPy7SfPxcjVuX-Xc_hGPuoH7F033_5=
>> Q1oG3_c4wa1KiCeWpg at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Dear Paul,
>> I have not worked with that grade of stainless steel and also not worked
>> with silicon carbide mesh.
>> Yours
>> A.D.Karve
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 11:58 AM, Paul Olivier <paul.olivier at esrla.com
>> >wrote:
>>
>> > A.D.,
>> >
>> > I am looking for a 446 stainless steel wire mesh.
>> > Have you ever worked with silicon carbide mesh?
>> > It is used as an emitter in thermophotovoltaics.
>> >
>> > Paul
>> >
>> > On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 10:54 AM, Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Dear Paul,
>> >> even stainless steel is no good. At high temperature, it corrodes and
>> >> crumbles into pieces.
>> >> Yours
>> >> A.D.Karve
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 4:03 PM, Steve Taylor <
>> >> steve at thetaylorfamily.org.uk> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On 5 March 2012 02:56, Paul Olivier <paul.olivier at esrla.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> I know that a tungsten wire mesh exists.
>> >>>> But no doubt this would be too expensive.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>> Tungsten will oxidise to nothing very quickly. Probably Incoloy would
>> be
>> >>> ideal
>> >>>
>> >>> Steve
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Stoves mailing list
>> >>>
>> >>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> >>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >>>
>> >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >>>
>> >>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web
>> site:
>> >>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> ***
>> >> Dr. A.D. Karve
>> >> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute
>> (ARTI)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Stoves mailing list
>> >>
>> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> >> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >>
>> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>> >>
>> >>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >>
>> >> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web
>> site:
>> >> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Paul A. Olivier PhD
>> > 27C Pham Hong Thai Street
>> > Dalat
>> > Vietnam
>> >
>> > Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
>> > Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
>> > Skype address: Xpolivier
>> > http://www.esrla.com/
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Stoves mailing list
>> >
>> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >
>> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>> >
>> >
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >
>> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>> > http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> ***
>> Dr. A.D. Karve
>> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 4
>> Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 11:12:35 +0700
>> From: Paul Olivier <paul.olivier at esrla.com>
>> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] the 150 gasifier in operation in Vietnam
>> Message-ID:
>> <CAOreFvar1C75TkTYsHmF8yS=
>> Qw0aJ02nxsoU-rbeNaTfXSUwPA at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> 446 stainless can handle temperatures as high as 1,200 C.
>> Silicon carbide is quite cheap, and it can handle temperatures as high as
>> 1,650 C.
>> http://accuratus.com/silicar.html
>>
>> Thanks.
>> Paul
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 11:02 AM, Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > Dear Paul,
>> > I have not worked with that grade of stainless steel and also not worked
>> > with silicon carbide mesh.
>> > Yours
>> > A.D.Karve
>> >
>> > On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 11:58 AM, Paul Olivier <paul.olivier at esrla.com
>> >wrote:
>> >
>> >> A.D.,
>> >>
>> >> I am looking for a 446 stainless steel wire mesh.
>> >> Have you ever worked with silicon carbide mesh?
>> >> It is used as an emitter in thermophotovoltaics.
>> >>
>> >> Paul
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 10:54 AM, Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> Dear Paul,
>> >>> even stainless steel is no good. At high temperature, it corrodes and
>> >>> crumbles into pieces.
>> >>> Yours
>> >>> A.D.Karve
>> >>>
>> >>> On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 4:03 PM, Steve Taylor <
>> >>> steve at thetaylorfamily.org.uk> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On 5 March 2012 02:56, Paul Olivier <paul.olivier at esrla.com> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I know that a tungsten wire mesh exists.
>> >>>>> But no doubt this would be too expensive.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>> Tungsten will oxidise to nothing very quickly. Probably Incoloy would
>> >>>> be ideal
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Steve
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> Stoves mailing list
>> >>>>
>> >>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> >>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >>>>
>> >>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >>>>
>> >>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web
>> site:
>> >>>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> ***
>> >>> Dr. A.D. Karve
>> >>> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute
>> >>> (ARTI)
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Stoves mailing list
>> >>>
>> >>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> >>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >>>
>> >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >>>
>> >>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web
>> site:
>> >>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Paul A. Olivier PhD
>> >> 27C Pham Hong Thai Street
>> >> Dalat
>> >> Vietnam
>> >>
>> >> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
>> >> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
>> >> Skype address: Xpolivier
>> >> http://www.esrla.com/
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Stoves mailing list
>> >>
>> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> >> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >>
>> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>> >>
>> >>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >>
>> >> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web
>> site:
>> >> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > ***
>> > Dr. A.D. Karve
>> > Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute
>> (ARTI)
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Stoves mailing list
>> >
>> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >
>> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>> >
>> >
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >
>> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>> > http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Paul A. Olivier PhD
>> 27C Pham Hong Thai Street
>> Dalat
>> Vietnam
>>
>> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
>> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
>> Skype address: Xpolivier
>> http://www.esrla.com/
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 5
>> Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 00:39:39 -0400
>> From: "Kevin" <kchisholm at ca.inter.net>
>> To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves"
>> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] the 150 gasifier in operation in Vietnam
>> Message-ID: <01679C76365247A7A4B457DF4120AFED at usera594fda0bf>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Dear Paul
>>
>> Why not start with simple mild steel screen, of various sizes, and test
>> them to see how long they last?
>>
>> Exotic materials will probably last longer, but at a very much higher
>> cost.
>>
>> Once you have cost and "lifetime" information, then you can make the best
>> decision about what materials to use.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Kevin
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Paul Olivier
>> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 12:12 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] the 150 gasifier in operation in Vietnam
>>
>>
>> 446 stainless can handle temperatures as high as 1,200 C.
>> Silicon carbide is quite cheap, and it can handle temperatures as high
>> as 1,650 C.
>> http://accuratus.com/silicar.html
>>
>> Thanks.
>> Paul
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 11:02 AM, Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Paul,
>> I have not worked with that grade of stainless steel and also not
>> worked with silicon carbide mesh.
>> Yours
>> A.D.Karve
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 11:58 AM, Paul Olivier <paul.olivier at esrla.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> A.D.,
>>
>> I am looking for a 446 stainless steel wire mesh.
>> Have you ever worked with silicon carbide mesh?
>> It is used as an emitter in thermophotovoltaics.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 10:54 AM, Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Paul,
>> even stainless steel is no good. At high temperature, it corrodes
>> and crumbles into pieces.
>> Yours
>> A.D.Karve
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 4:03 PM, Steve Taylor <
>> steve at thetaylorfamily.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5 March 2012 02:56, Paul Olivier <paul.olivier at esrla.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I know that a tungsten wire mesh exists.
>> But no doubt this would be too expensive.
>>
>>
>>
>> Tungsten will oxidise to nothing very quickly. Probably Incoloy
>> would be ideal
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Stoves mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our
>> web site:
>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ***
>> Dr. A.D. Karve
>> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology
>> Institute (ARTI)
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Stoves mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web
>> site:
>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Paul A. Olivier PhD
>> 27C Pham Hong Thai Street
>> Dalat
>> Vietnam
>>
>> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
>> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
>> Skype address: Xpolivier
>> http://www.esrla.com/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Stoves mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web
>> site:
>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ***
>> Dr. A.D. Karve
>> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute
>> (ARTI)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Stoves mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web
>> site:
>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Paul A. Olivier PhD
>> 27C Pham Hong Thai Street
>> Dalat
>> Vietnam
>>
>> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
>> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
>> Skype address: Xpolivier
>> http://www.esrla.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Stoves mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
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>>
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>>
>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 6
>> Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 12:00:41 +0700
>> From: Paul Olivier <paul.olivier at esrla.com>
>> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] the 150 gasifier in operation in Vietnam
>> Message-ID:
>> <CAOreFvZByxEciQ=PA_uEXGG2+kXWUcoDQa51VzogA3jO=
>> UGreQ at mail.gmail.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Kevin,
>>
>> I do not think that normal mild steel wire mesh would make it through a
>> single gasifier run.
>> I'm afraid that it has to be something "exotic".
>> This wire mesh really gets hot.
>> Someone measured the temperature about 4 inches above the dome.
>> When the probe reached 500 C, he stopped.
>>
>> Thanks.
>> Paul
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 11:39 AM, Kevin <kchisholm at ca.inter.net> wrote:
>>
>> > **
>> > Dear Paul
>> >
>> > Why not start with simple mild steel screen, of various sizes, and test
>> > them to see how long they last?
>> >
>> > Exotic materials will probably last longer, but at a very much higher
>> > cost.
>> >
>> > Once you have cost and "lifetime" information, then you can make the
>> best
>> > decision about what materials to use.
>> >
>> > Best wishes,
>> >
>> > Kevin
>> >
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > *From:* Paul Olivier <paul.olivier at esrla.com>
>> > *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves<
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> > *Sent:* Tuesday, March 06, 2012 12:12 AM
>> > *Subject:* Re: [Stoves] the 150 gasifier in operation in Vietnam
>> >
>> > 446 stainless can handle temperatures as high as 1,200 C.
>> > Silicon carbide is quite cheap, and it can handle temperatures as high
>> as
>> > 1,650 C.
>> > http://accuratus.com/silicar.html
>> >
>> > Thanks.
>> > Paul
>> >
>> > On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 11:02 AM, Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Dear Paul,
>> >> I have not worked with that grade of stainless steel and also not
>> worked
>> >> with silicon carbide mesh.
>> >> Yours
>> >> A.D.Karve
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 11:58 AM, Paul Olivier <paul.olivier at esrla.com
>> >wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> A.D.,
>> >>>
>> >>> I am looking for a 446 stainless steel wire mesh.
>> >>> Have you ever worked with silicon carbide mesh?
>> >>> It is used as an emitter in thermophotovoltaics.
>> >>>
>> >>> Paul
>> >>>
>> >>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 10:54 AM, Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Dear Paul,
>> >>>> even stainless steel is no good. At high temperature, it corrodes and
>> >>>> crumbles into pieces.
>> >>>> Yours
>> >>>> A.D.Karve
>> >>>>
>> >>>> On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 4:03 PM, Steve Taylor <
>> >>>> steve at thetaylorfamily.org.uk> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On 5 March 2012 02:56, Paul Olivier <paul.olivier at esrla.com> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> I know that a tungsten wire mesh exists.
>> >>>>>> But no doubt this would be too expensive.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>> Tungsten will oxidise to nothing very quickly. Probably Incoloy
>> would
>> >>>>> be ideal
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Steve
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>> Stoves mailing list
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> >>>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web
>> >>>>> site:
>> >>>>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> ***
>> >>>> Dr. A.D. Karve
>> >>>> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute
>> >>>> (ARTI)
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> Stoves mailing list
>> >>>>
>> >>>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> >>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >>>>
>> >>>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >>>>
>> >>>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web
>> site:
>> >>>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Paul A. Olivier PhD
>> >>> 27C Pham Hong Thai Street
>> >>> Dalat
>> >>> Vietnam
>> >>>
>> >>> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
>> >>> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
>> >>> Skype address: Xpolivier
>> >>> http://www.esrla.com/
>> >>>
>> >>> _______________________________________________
>> >>> Stoves mailing list
>> >>>
>> >>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> >>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >>>
>> >>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >>>
>> >>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web
>> site:
>> >>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> ***
>> >> Dr. A.D. Karve
>> >> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute
>> (ARTI)
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> Stoves mailing list
>> >>
>> >> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> >> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >>
>> >> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>> >>
>> >>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >>
>> >> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web
>> site:
>> >> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Paul A. Olivier PhD
>> > 27C Pham Hong Thai Street
>> > Dalat
>> > Vietnam
>> >
>> > Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
>> > Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
>> > Skype address: Xpolivier
>> > http://www.esrla.com/
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Stoves mailing list
>> >
>> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >
>> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>> >
>> >
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >
>> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>> > http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>> >
>> > ------------------------------
>> >
>> > No virus found in this message.
>> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> > Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2114/4852 - Release Date:
>> 03/05/12
>> >
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > Stoves mailing list
>> >
>> > to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> > stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >
>> > to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>> >
>> >
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>> >
>> > for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>> > http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> Paul A. Olivier PhD
>> 27C Pham Hong Thai Street
>> Dalat
>> Vietnam
>>
>> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
>> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
>> Skype address: Xpolivier
>> http://www.esrla.com/
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20120306/02c47922/attachment-0001.html
>> >
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 7
>> Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2012 22:11:23 -0700
>> From: "Andrew C. Parker" <acparker at xmission.com>
>> To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves"
>> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] the 150 gasifier in operation in Vietnam
>> Message-ID: <op.waqgo9fuuoov7l at user-8ezctxe031>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-15; format=flowed;
>> delsp=yes
>>
>> If I understood the patents, the material needs not only to be refractory,
>> but also to radiate heat in the desired frequency (turns red with heat).
>> Patent US4452225 used Monel. Patent US6612834 requires "an inoxidizable,
>> non-porous refractory material formed to be permeable and non-porous and
>> which turns red with heat." Patent US7631640 only describes high
>> temperature metal (No mention of heated color).
>>
>> Also, could someone who knows more about these things than I (most of you,
>> I'd wager) please review US6612834? It can be read at:
>> <
>> http://www.google.com/patents?id=DjoNAAAAEBAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=US6612834&hl=en&sa=X&ei=sZdVT471HaaviAKnuOi2Bw&ved=0CDQQ6AEwAA
>> >,
>> if the url doesn't work, just type the patent number into google to get to
>> google patents.
>>
>> I am curious about the inventor's explanation of his use of an amplifying
>> outer enclosure (labeled "5"). It starts at Column 8 line 59 and goes
>> through Column 9 line 57. The goal being to convert as much heat as
>> possible into IR radiation.
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 05 Mar 2012 21:12:35 -0700, Paul Olivier <paul.olivier at esrla.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> > 446 stainless can handle temperatures as high as 1,200 C.
>> > Silicon carbide is quite cheap, and it can handle temperatures as high
>> as
>> > 1,650 C.
>> > http://accuratus.com/silicar.html
>> >
>> > Thanks.
>> > Paul
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 8
>> Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2012 02:23:24 -0400
>> From: "Kevin" <kchisholm at ca.inter.net>
>> To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves"
>> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] the 150 gasifier in operation in Vietnam
>> Message-ID: <93A22F3DD3BD4FEE91ED724C5DD2D6A9 at usera594fda0bf>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
>>
>> Dear Paul
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Paul Olivier
>> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 1:00 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] the 150 gasifier in operation in Vietnam
>>
>>
>> Kevin,
>>
>> I do not think that normal mild steel wire mesh would make it through a
>> single gasifier run.
>>
>> # Certainly, "red hot mild steel" in an oxidizing air atmosphere will
>> scale up and fail quickly. However, you don't have that.... you have a
>> combustion zone atmosphere. It is very simple and cheap[ to try. Try it,
>> and let the screen itself tell you that it needs to be of higher quality.
>>
>> I'm afraid that it has to be something "exotic".
>>
>> # Let the system prove to you that it needs to be exotic. :-)
>>
>> This wire mesh really gets hot.
>>
>> # "Hot" is one thing, but "oxdizing atmosphere" is another. If the
>> atmosphere the screen "sees" is "adequately reducing", then mild steel
>> might be an economically good solution. On the other hand, as the
>> atmosphere becomes increasingly oxidizing, then the more exotic materials
>> are required.
>>
>> Someone measured the temperature about 4 inches above the dome.
>> When the probe reached 500 C, he stopped.
>>
>> # A material that would fail in air at 500 C might be quite acceptable
>> in a reducing atmosphere at 500 C
>>
>> # The problem is one of Temperature AND Atmosphere. You could probably
>> reduce costs safely, with a test program that confirmed the minimum quality
>> screen material that would do an acceptable job.
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Kevin
>>
>> Thanks.
>> Paul
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 11:39 AM, Kevin <kchisholm at ca.inter.net> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Paul
>>
>> Why not start with simple mild steel screen, of various sizes, and
>> test them to see how long they last?
>>
>> Exotic materials will probably last longer, but at a very much higher
>> cost.
>>
>> Once you have cost and "lifetime" information, then you can make the
>> best decision about what materials to use.
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Kevin
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Paul Olivier
>> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2012 12:12 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] the 150 gasifier in operation in Vietnam
>>
>>
>> 446 stainless can handle temperatures as high as 1,200 C.
>> Silicon carbide is quite cheap, and it can handle temperatures as
>> high as 1,650 C.
>> http://accuratus.com/silicar.html
>>
>> Thanks.
>> Paul
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 11:02 AM, Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Paul,
>> I have not worked with that grade of stainless steel and also not
>> worked with silicon carbide mesh.
>> Yours
>> A.D.Karve
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 11:58 AM, Paul Olivier <
>> paul.olivier at esrla.com> wrote:
>>
>> A.D.,
>>
>> I am looking for a 446 stainless steel wire mesh.
>> Have you ever worked with silicon carbide mesh?
>> It is used as an emitter in thermophotovoltaics.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 10:54 AM, Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Paul,
>> even stainless steel is no good. At high temperature, it
>> corrodes and crumbles into pieces.
>> Yours
>> A.D.Karve
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 5, 2012 at 4:03 PM, Steve Taylor <
>> steve at thetaylorfamily.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5 March 2012 02:56, Paul Olivier <paul.olivier at esrla.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> I know that a tungsten wire mesh exists.
>> But no doubt this would be too expensive.
>>
>>
>>
>> Tungsten will oxidise to nothing very quickly. Probably
>> Incoloy would be ideal
>>
>> Steve
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Stoves mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see
>> our web site:
>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ***
>> Dr. A.D. Karve
>> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology
>> Institute (ARTI)
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Stoves mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our
>> web site:
>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Paul A. Olivier PhD
>> 27C Pham Hong Thai Street
>> Dalat
>> Vietnam
>>
>> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
>> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
>> Skype address: Xpolivier
>> http://www.esrla.com/
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Stoves mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our
>> web site:
>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> ***
>> Dr. A.D. Karve
>> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology
>> Institute (ARTI)
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Stoves mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web
>> site:
>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Paul A. Olivier PhD
>> 27C Pham Hong Thai Street
>> Dalat
>> Vietnam
>>
>> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
>> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
>> Skype address: Xpolivier
>> http://www.esrla.com/
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Stoves mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web
>> site:
>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2114/4852 - Release Date:
>> 03/05/12
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Stoves mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
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>>
>> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>>
>> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>>
>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web
>> site:
>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Paul A. Olivier PhD
>> 27C Pham Hong Thai Street
>> Dalat
>> Vietnam
>>
>> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
>> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
>> Skype address: Xpolivier
>> http://www.esrla.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Stoves mailing list
>>
>> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
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>>
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>>
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>>
>> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves, News and Information see our web site:
>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>> No virus found in this message.
>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>> Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2114/4852 - Release Date: 03/05/12
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>> ------------------------------
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Stoves mailing list
>>
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>>
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>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>>
>>
>> End of Stoves Digest, Vol 19, Issue 11
>> **************************************
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
>
--
Paul A. Olivier PhD
27C Pham Hong Thai Street
Dalat
Vietnam
Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
Skype address: Xpolivier
http://www.esrla.com/
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