[Stoves] Continuous feed of fuel -- Re: Very small stoves ...

Crispin Pemberton-Pigott crispinpigott at gmail.com
Tue Oct 23 11:38:01 CDT 2012 

Dear Paul

Why do you think the Peko Pe is not in (mass) production in Uganda?  Is it not a low cost and effective stove?  

What is the thermal efficiency of the Quad, and can you give me the numbers that were used to calculate the result(s)? I am interested to see the fuel loading and alla that. Burn rate...

Thanks
Crispin


-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu>
Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2012 10:50:21 
To: <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
Cc: Stoves<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>; Hugh McLaughlin<wastemin1 at verizon.net>; James S. Schoner<jss at bitmaxim.com>; pwever at chipenergy.com<pwever at chipenergy.com>
Subject: Continuous feed of fuel -- Re: [Stoves] Very small stoves ...

Crispin and other Stovers,

Subject line changed because the theme has changed.   Some earlier 
messages about this new thread are below (they were under the old thread.)

Vertical fuel feed by gravity is a key part of the "Dasifier" of more 
than a decade ago (and described on the web).  But it had forced 
(induced) draft.

I learned from Agua Das about it, and later was able (with a few key 
changes) to make it natural draft, but not a perfect product. I showed 
that at ETHOS 2006, and I have made smaller ones, even down to the size 
of a one-gallon can.  This evolved into the AVUD gasifier as described 
in "Micro-Gasification:  What it is and why it works" published in 
Boiling Point.  And that is the essence behind the continuous feed 
biomass furnace of  Chip Energy, with mechanical feeding and forced air.

My point is this:  We (the generic "we" meaning many of us) know how to 
do many of these things.   But there simply is not enough time and 
certainly no serious funding to press forward with these efforts.   I am 
now working to get the US$16 Mwoto Quad TLUD-ND into mass production in 
Uganda.   To do what we are discussing about natural draft continuous 
feed small stoves is another equally large or larger project, and to 
work on it could seriously endanger all of my efforts in Uganda with 
TLUDs.   In Uganda I must do "business".   Stove development and 
experimentation does not get any financial support.

 From all that I can see (during 11 years working on small cookstoves), 
there is not sufficient support for small innovative efforts.   So my 
focus has been on the TLUD technology, not the small AVUD methods.

Sorry that this ended up being a "Lament".   There are just too many 
things to do.  And the early days on the Stoves Listserv we would talk 
about such things as fuel feeding for small stoves, and we did 
experiments.   But now the pressure is for making millions of stoves 
that exist, and pressure to NOT be distracted by designing of stoves 
that should or could exist but do not have proven track records.   That 
is just the way that it is.

Paul

Paul S. Anderson, PhD  aka "Dr TLUD"
Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu   Skype: paultlud  Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:  www.drtlud.com

On 10/23/2012 9:54 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:
> The Mayon Turbo Stove is the first commercially available stove I saw 
> that used a tap to feed and there are some complaints about the need 
> for attention to keep it going, partly because of the rice hull fuel 
> being so light and low power. The possibility of using another feed 
> method is attractive.
>
> So I am looking for a way to use the burning of the fuel right at the 
> hopper outlet to do the job of releasing fuel now and then or 'often'. 
> It doesn't look good at the moment but it might! Never assume anything.
>
> Alex I am booking to see you mid Nov as I have to collect a piano from 
> the Carrying Place area.
>
> Regards
> Crispin back in Jakarta
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From: * Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu>
> *Date: *Tue, 23 Oct 2012 09:29:01 -0500
> *To: *Discussion of biomass cooking 
> stoves<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> *Cc: *Crispin Pemberton-Pigott<crispinpigott at gmail.com>; Hugh 
> McLaughlin<wastemin1 at verizon.net>
> *Subject: *Re: [Stoves] Very small stoves and reheating food
>
> Crispin and Alex and all,
>
> Successful "dribble" or "trickle" feeding at very low cost will be a 
> great addition to small stove technology.
>
> Of course gravity is the least expensive.   But "assisted gravity" 
> might be relatively low cost.   I am thinking of a small tapper or 
> vibrator that can be set to giggle the fuel chamber periodically or 
> when some sensor sends a signal.
>
> Alternatively there could be some shape of rod that is inside the fuel 
> chamber.  There are many ways to giggle/wiggle/twist/tap/lift/drop to 
> have minor movement of the rod to assure the gravity flow of the fuel 
> in the hopper.
>
> Alex is doing it the right way:   Start with uniform fuels like 
> pellets or quality (screened) wood chips.   When a method works there, 
> then start looking at the more difficult fuels to make flow.
>
> Paul
>
> Paul S. Anderson, PhD  aka "Dr TLUD"
> Email:psanders at ilstu.edu    Skype: paultlud  Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> Website:www.drtlud.com
> On 10/22/2012 7:48 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:
>>
>> Dear Paul
>>
>> Not too fast there… that is what is exciting about Alex English’s 
>> dribble feeder (I am calling it because that is what it is doing). He 
>> is successful so far with wood chips, pellets and by extension, any 
>> small fuel like nut shells, coffee hulls etc.
>>
>> I am going to have a gander in November. It is the first /small/ 
>> gravity feeder that I have seen work well. There is no reason it 
>> won’t work with rice hull if we get a bit clever.
>>
>> You fan (geddit)
>>
>> Crispin
>>
>> *++++++*
>>
>> It is the words "feed ... continuously" fuel that is a problem.   The 
>> pellet stoves (heaters) are acceptable and successful because the 
>> continuous feeding of fuel is automated.   No such luxury with 
>> inexpensive stoves for economically poor people.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>


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