[Stoves] TLUD Use - Mongolia

[Paul Anderson]

Crispin and all,

Wonderful news about TLUDs in Mongolia!!!!!!!!   My notes:

1.  In general, we Stovers do not know much about the Mongolia 
activities because there has been precious little information coming to 
us from the people doing the project. (Interpretation:  We know that you 
are busy, but do not blame us for not knowing about or discussing the 
Mongolia stove efforts.  )

2.  Although TLUD stoves are generally focused on dry biomass fuels, 
CLEAN BURNING of COAL is certainly acceptable in my book. 
(Interpretation:   We could certainly embrace coal as TLUD fuel more if 
we did not spend so much time discussing (arguing) about fuel 
efficiencies being worse because charcoal is made in TLUD stoves.   CO2 
negative (bury biochar) vs CO2 neutral (burn trees to ash) vs CO2 
positive (coal).   Wow,   We could argue this forever and never get to 
the business of making TLUD stoves, meanwhile the LPG stoves can blaze 
away being CO2 positive.)

3.   That is an impressive list:
>
> The City of Ulaanbaatar
>
> MCC/MCA Mongolia (USA)
>
> Asian Development Bank
>
> World Bank
>
> Xac Bank (pronounced '_kh_ass')
>
And none of them can get their act together to divulge about a 
SUCCESSFUL project???   Get some of these 100,000 stoves out of Mongolia 
and into the hands of SeTAR and Aprovecho and Jetter and even to me or 
others.   And put a TINY bit of cash behind it to get their success 
documented.   Certainly the ADB and WB ought to understand that?     
No.   I doubt it.   And the academics cannot seem to see beyond "peer 
reviewed" publications that come out months and months later.   Crispin 
should not have to do this announcement of important results by himself.

4.  And as for the GACC Stove Inventory refusing to include the coal 
stoves, that inventory exists but is not functional (useful) yet.    If 
it is, let's have somebody explain how they have used it thus far.

5.  For everyone:   The Thread (Subject) of this series of messages is 
TLUD Use.    And then the next words can say where or how.  But if the 
where is Mongolia instead of the previously name Vietnam, then PLEASE 
ADJUST THE SUBJECT LINE!!

I am delighted to read about TLUD success in Mongolia.   I just want to 
read MORE about it.   THEN we can tell others about it.

Paul

Paul S. Anderson, PhD  aka "Dr TLUD"
Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu   Skype: paultlud  Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:  www.drtlud.com

On 4/29/2013 9:47 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:
>
> Dear Paul and All
>
> It may be worth keeping your eye on the Mongolian home stove 
> replacement program by MCC (Millennium Challenge Corp) which ends in 
> September though will be continued by the Ulaanbaatar City government. 
> It has replaced something like 100,000 stoves with a value in the 
> range of $15m so far. Almost all of them are TLUD's.
>
> The % improvement in combustion efficiency and emissions reduction of 
> PM, BC and CO has been greater for coal burning stoves than for any 
> other device and it has not received the attention that it deserves. 
> The performance improvement was not accidental -- meaning it is the 
> result of an iterative process of testing and analysis.
>
> It is unfortunate in the extreme that these stoves were not included 
> in the  Stove Inventory because they indicate the level of performance 
> which can be achieved with scientific testing and sound design advice.
>
> The fuels being used are more difficult to deal with than wood or wood 
> pellets yet they have achieved much better performance so I think it 
> is remiss for the TLUD promoters not to be on top of this situation. I 
> don't think there is another improved stove programme currently going 
> on with $15m work of product already on the street.
>
> The project is about to step up a gear to include the low pressure 
> water heating stoves and mass wall heaters both of which were left in 
> abeyance by the urgency to deal with ger stoves. The organisations 
> involved are numerous, but I will mention the highest profile being:
>
> The City of Ulaanbaatar
>
> MCC/MCA Mongolia (USA)
>
> Asian Development Bank
>
> World Bank
>
> Xac Bank (pronounced '_kh_ass')
>
> Accomplishments: The reduction in CO is >70% and in PM+BC >90%. There 
> are fuel consumption reduction benefits though this has been secondary 
> to air quality in terms of the main goals.
>
> There are >150,000 home stoves in use in the city plus thousands of 
> other combustors. A complete transition from conventional combustors 
> to advanced ones will take a few more years. There are two designs 
> that have proven to be truly worthy of dissemination: crossdraft 
> burners (which can be hopper fed) and batch-loaded TLUD's. Both are 
> capable of a 99% reduction in PM and I believe BC which forms a great 
> fraction of it.
>
> Regards
>
> Crispin
>
> ++++++++
>
> Dear Stephen,
>
> Your research with 100 households is highly important.   But I hope 
> that some of your key results on usage will be made available soon.   
> To wait until the end of the year to maybe have peer-review 
> publication before we see the results is a looooong time.
>
> Just knowing the trends or "favorable" vs "unfavorable" will help.
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20130429/f4b0ff20/attachment.html>