[Stoves] Stove Definition

Tue Apr 30 17:44:53 CDT 2013

Tom: 

You are a great list owner. 

I have almost gone on today to explain what I think is the real motivation for Keven's definition question. I think he is trying to get others to agree that a device that makes char can't fit into the standard definition of what a stove is or should be. If he is smart, he would drop the discussion, but .... we'll see. 

Ron 

----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Miles" <tmiles at trmiles.com> 
To: "Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>, "Frank Shields" <frank at compostlab.com> 
Cc: "Jim Jetter" <Jetter.Jim at epamail.epa.gov>, "Hugh McLaughlin" <wastemin1 at verizon.net> 
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 3:56:39 PM 
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Stove Definition 

Kevin, 

We are not going to waste time here redefining “Stoves.” This list is for the discussion of biomass cooking stoves for developing countries. Other appliances such as heating stoves and hot water boilers are included and enter the discussion when appropriate. 

http://www.stoves.bioenergylists.org/about 

Read the literature on the stoves, ETHOS, Global Alliance for Clean Cookstoves, GIZ and other sites and you will find definitions, design principles, procedures for evaluating cookstove safety, design, and performance testing. 

This list is NOT about heating and cooking appliances in developed countries that you suggest, such as fireplace inserts or free standing space heating stoves. Since the late 1970s we have spent years developing the standards and efficiencies for those appliances. They are now regulated industries based on methods and laws developed by several members of this list and expressed in the regulations of many countries, including the Canadian standards that you refer too. If you want to discuss those appliances then go to the organizations (e.g. Hearth Products Association, Pellet Fuels Institute, etc.) and lists such as woodheat at yahoo.com that are dedicated to those appliances. Having said that many people involved in the production and manufacture of appliances for developed countries do participate in the development of biomass cooking stoves for developing countries and participate in this and other forums. Participants on this list have often adapted tools or techniques from those appliances to cooking stoves with variable success. 

The function and performance criteria are clear: improved health and resource management through energy efficiency. The challenge is much greater than in regulated sectors because it is a voluntary international activity. We are here to discuss concepts and experiences for the design, fabrication, testing and dissemination of improved cooking stoves throughout the world. 

Thanks 

Tom 

Owner, Biomass Cooking Stoves 

www.stoves.bioenergylists.org 

From: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Kevin 
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 1:12 PM 
To: Frank Shields; 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves' 
Cc: 'Jim Jetter'; 'Hugh McLaughlin'; 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves' 
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Stove Definition 

Dear Frank 

I get your point about the difficulty in getting agreement between people in a large group. However, I would suggest that a "generally agreed upon" definition of a "Stove" will help greatly in establishing "safety and for performance.stove standards". For example a wood burning "stove" that does not meet Canadian Standards Association (CSA) or Underwriters Laboratories (UL) Standards cannot be sold in Canada or the US, in that Insurance Companies will not insure a home or business in which they are installed. If for no other reason than being able to define the stove well enough to be able to select the correct Standard, a "stove definition" is important and necessary. 

These Standards for safety and performance are very helpful. They can provide excellent guidance on how to design and install stove appliances so that they do not hurt people, or lead to house fires. 

The major interest in "Stoves" on the "Stove List" seems to be in "Cooking stoves in the Tropics." However, there are places in the world where biomass fuelled space heaters are required. What about the following applications for biomass heating and cooking: 

* Fireplace inserts 

* Free standing space heating wood stoves 

* Cooking ranges 

* Wood heated hot water boilers 

How should they fit in with the scheme of things? 

best wishes, 

Kevin 

Best wishes, 

Kevin 

----- Original Message ----- 

From: Frank Shields 

To: 'Kevin' ; 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves' 

Cc: 'Jim Jetter' ; 'Hugh McLaughlin' ; 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves' 

Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 2:41 PM 

Subject: RE: Stove Definition 

Dear Kevin, 

The compost community gave up on a definition for compost after many attempts. Some have their own but they are never agreed upon by all as there are outliers of the norm. . 

We just go along as if we all know what compost is. 

Some interest in the biochar group to come up with a definition for biochar. It will never happen. : ) And it doesn’t matter. 

I think the same with Stoves. 

Regards 

Frank 

Thanks 

Frank Shields 

BioChar Division 

Control Laboratories, Inc. 

42 Hangar Way 

Watsonville, CE 95076 

(831) 724-5422 tel 

(81) 724-3188 fax 

frank at biocharlab.com 

www.controllabs.com 

From: Kevin [ mailto:kchisholm at ca.inter.net ] 
Sent: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 9:51 AM 
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves; Frank Shields 
Cc: 'Jim Jetter'; 'Hugh McLaughlin'; 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves' 
Subject: Stove Definition 

Dear List 

Just what is a "stove?" 

I would suggest that it is important that we all know what a "stove" is, when we attempt to determine the difference between a "good stove" and a "poor stove.' 

When we ask Mr. Google, we get more than 7 million hits. However, the most common definitions seem to be typified by the one at 

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/stove 

" 1 a : a portable or fixed apparatus that burns fuel or uses electricity to provide heat (as for cooking or heating) " 

At http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/ , the stated purpose of the site is: 

" Our site is dedicated to helping people develop better stoves for cooking with biomass fuels in developing regions. " 

What about accepting the Merriam-Webster definition for a "stove?" 

Would anyone have a better definition for a "stove?" 

Best wishes, 

Kevin 

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