[Stoves] Stoves Digest, Vol 30, Issue 7

[Corey Berman]

Hello all,

The creation of PAH in biochar is fairly complex. The Illinois Biochar
Group at UIUC is doing a lot of work in this area, I have been attending
their meetings/presentations for over a year now. John Scott has studied
the PAH and phenol formation under different gasification rates and
temperature, air/N2 environment, and post storage conditions. His
presentation is attached which also shows the equipment he uses, there is
not a simple "PAH meter" to answer these questions sufficiently.
Kurt Spokas is also doing a lot of work on biochar with the USDA and
running an ongoing experiment of biochar in active plots. So far he has
seen all kinds of results for different chars and different crops: no
significant difference in yield, increased height and decreased germination
in lettuce, lower grain yields, improved poor soil but unaffected good
soil, ect. He makes sure to emphasize that biochar is highly variable and
not completely understood, and that people are trying to make conclusions
about it without actually knowing what it is or all the underlying
mechanisms. Kurt is very straightforward and scientific in his approach, I
recommend looking up some of his work to balance out the "miracle biochar"
claims that are out there. Basically we cannot say if a certain biochar
will be "good" or "bad". It would have to be created consistently in a well
controlled environment and used with a particular crop in a particular soil
with a known response to get a net positive outcome.

Kinematic viscosity is the diffussivity of momentum. Wikipedia has some
ways to measure it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viscosity#Viscosity_measurement
In school we measured viscosity by dropping spheres of various material
(delrin, hdpe, steel, chrome) through a tall column of the liquid material.
With the surface friction, shape factor, and mass of sphere known, and the
descent time and distance measured, the viscosity could be calculated.

- Corey Berman


On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 2:00 PM, <stoves-request at lists.bioenergylists.org>wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Characteristics of biochar was Re: [biochar] grassifier &
>       cedar chip char (Josh Kearns)
>    2. Re: Characteristics of biochar was Re: [biochar]  grassifier &
>       cedar chip char (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)
>    3. Kinematic Viscosity measure of organic waste water question
>       (Frank Shields)
>    4. Re: Kinematic Viscosity measure of organic waste water
>       question (Crispin Pemberton-Pigott)
>    5. Re: Kinematic Viscosity measure of organic waste  water
>       question (Frank Shields)
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Josh Kearns <yeah.yeah.right.on at gmail.com>
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Cc:
> Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 16:36:57 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Characteristics of biochar was Re: [biochar]
> grassifier & cedar chip char
> Crispin (or others) can you clarify this a little more - do the
> Glaser-Steiner wood gasifier and BBQ charcoals test high for PAHs because
> of post-manufacture additives? With BBQ charcoal, that could be lighter
> fluid, which could be naptha (-lene)?
>
> Also, they reference an EPA method for PAH determination. Would that
> involve some kind of solvent extraction? If so is it an environmentally
> relevant analytical method? I assume folks have seen this paper:
>
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22321025
>
> suggesting leaching of PAHs and dioxins from biochars should not
> constitute an environmental problem.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> JK
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 2:35 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <
> crispinpigott at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Tom****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Thanks for that:****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> http://www.bacatec.de/dl/Ge09_Glaser-Steiner_engl.pdf****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> “A further criterion for the quality of biochar is the lack of
>> contamination with both inorganic****
>>
>> (e.g. heavy metals) and organic contaminants (e.g. polycyclic aromatic
>> hydrocarbons (PAH),****
>>
>> dioxins etc.). In this study, we could only evaluate polycyclic aromatic
>> hydrocarbons (PAH,****
>>
>> Fig. 4). Although chars from wood gasification are within the elemental
>> composition and the****
>>
>> black carbon thresholds, they exhibit extremely high PAH contents (Fig.
>> 4). Therefore, they****
>>
>> are not suited for soil amendment and thus, they cannot be classified as
>> biochar. Surprisingly****
>>
>> high PAH contents were also measured in the barbeque charcoals (Fig. 4)
>> while all other****
>>
>> investigated chars had low PAH contents (Fig. 4).”****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Well, there’s a kick in the head. Why not? Because of chemicals
>> manufactured in the process that were not there in the original fuel. That
>> may explain a lot to some experimenters.****
>>
>> ** **
>>
>> Regards****
>>
>> Crispin****
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Stoves mailing list
>>
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>>
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>> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Josh Kearns
> PhD Candidate, Environmental Engineering
> University of Colorado-Boulder
> Visiting Researcher, North Carolina State University
>
> Director of Science
> Aqueous Solutions
> www.aqsolutions.org
>
> Mobile: 720 989 3959
> Skype: joshkearns
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
> To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'" <
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Cc:
> Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 16:50:40 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Characteristics of biochar was Re: [biochar]
> grassifier & cedar chip char
>
> Dear Josh****
>
> ** **
>
> I understand that the PAH’s are manufactured from the CHO+H2O in the wood
> fuel. ****
>
> ** **
>
> The right people to comment on the PAH extraction are Philip Lloyd and
> Frank. They measure these things. Philip, don’t you have a PAH meter of
> some kind?****
>
> ** **
>
> >…and BBQ charcoals test high for PAHs because of post-manufacture
> additives? ****
>
> Kingsford has 6 ingredients but I am pretty sure that is not the source of
> the PAH content. They are pretty innocuous. Charcoal is not.****
>
> >With BBQ charcoal, that could be lighter fluid, which could be naptha
> (-lene)?****
>
> That is a possibility if there are ‘rapid lighting’ edges. Jellied
> petroleum, sometimes.****
>
> Regards****
>
> Crispin****
>
> ** **
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Frank Shields" <frank at compostlab.com>
> To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'" <
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Cc:
> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 10:11:44 -0800
> Subject: [Stoves] Kinematic Viscosity measure of organic waste water
> question
>
> Dear Stovers,****
>
> ** **
>
> I have been asked a few time to determine the kinematic viscosity of the
> remaining liquid from a methane production solution. ****
>
> These are new words for me and looking at equipment there seem to be many
> ways to determine viscosity and then calculators to convert to kinematic
> units. ****
>
> ** **
>
> For this matrix and the range needed any suggestions on inexpensive
> equipment?****
>
> And what is the conversion from distance traveled of a liquid(?) to
> kinematic units? whatever that is.****
>
> ** **
>
> Just looking into it to see if it’s something we want to do.****
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks for any help****
>
> ** **
>
> Frank****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> Frank Shields****
>
> Control Laboratories, Inc.****
>
> 42 Hangar Way****
>
> Watsonville, CA  95076****
>
> (831) 724-5422 tel****
>
> (831) 724-3188 fax****
>
> www.biocharlab.com****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott" <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
> To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'" <
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Cc:
> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 14:08:22 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Kinematic Viscosity measure of organic waste water
> question
>
> Dear Frank****
>
> ** **
>
> How much of it have you got?****
>
> ** **
>
> I bet Frans has some solutions.****
>
> ** **
>
> Regards****
>
> Crispin****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> Dear Stovers,****
>
> ** **
>
> I have been asked a few time to determine the kinematic viscosity of the
> remaining liquid from a methane production solution. ****
>
> These are new words for me and looking at equipment there seem to be many
> ways to determine viscosity and then calculators to convert to kinematic
> units. ****
>
> ** **
>
> For this matrix and the range needed any suggestions on inexpensive
> equipment?****
>
> And what is the conversion from distance traveled of a liquid(?) to
> kinematic units? whatever that is.****
>
> ** **
>
> Just looking into it to see if it’s something we want to do.****
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks for any help****
>
> ** **
>
> Frank****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> Frank Shields****
>
> Control Laboratories, Inc.****
>
> 42 Hangar Way****
>
> Watsonville, CA  95076****
>
> (831) 724-5422 tel****
>
> (831) 724-3188 fax****
>
> www.biocharlab.com****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Frank Shields" <frank at compostlab.com>
> To: "'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'" <
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Cc:
> Date: Thu, 7 Feb 2013 11:24:41 -0800
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Kinematic Viscosity measure of organic waste water
> question
>
> Dear Crispin,****
>
> ** **
>
> Any amount I tell them I need. I would think only a 50 mls would be enough
> for most of the equipment I have seen. They want this for what purpose?
> Perhaps to determine the pump energy needed to move from one location to
> another? Seems all that are producing methane to fuel stoves will need to
> pump liquids and this info would be useful for design.****
>
> ** **
>
> Regards****
>
> ** **
>
> Frank ****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 07, 2013 11:08 AM
> *To:* 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'
> *Subject:* Re: [Stoves] Kinematic Viscosity measure of organic waste
> water question****
>
> ** **
>
> Dear Frank****
>
> ** **
>
> How much of it have you got?****
>
> ** **
>
> I bet Frans has some solutions.****
>
> ** **
>
> Regards****
>
> Crispin****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> Dear Stovers,****
>
> ** **
>
> I have been asked a few time to determine the kinematic viscosity of the
> remaining liquid from a methane production solution. ****
>
> These are new words for me and looking at equipment there seem to be many
> ways to determine viscosity and then calculators to convert to kinematic
> units. ****
>
> ** **
>
> For this matrix and the range needed any suggestions on inexpensive
> equipment?****
>
> And what is the conversion from distance traveled of a liquid(?) to
> kinematic units? whatever that is.****
>
> ** **
>
> Just looking into it to see if it’s something we want to do.****
>
> ** **
>
> Thanks for any help****
>
> ** **
>
> Frank****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> Frank Shields****
>
> Control Laboratories, Inc.****
>
> 42 Hangar Way****
>
> Watsonville, CA  95076****
>
> (831) 724-5422 tel****
>
> (831) 724-3188 fax****
>
> www.biocharlab.com****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>
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>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
> http://www.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
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