[Stoves] on ocean acidification

Fri Jul 5 00:21:20 CDT 2013

I wouldn't normally want to post off-topic, but I think it is necessary 
that an error be corrected before this thread is put to sleep.

It is scientifically accurate to say that the acidity of the oceans has 
increased.

It is well documented that the average pH of the oceans has decreased by 
about 0.1.  Because pH is a logarithmic scale, this actually means a 30% 
increase in the hydrogen ion activity.  In other words, the acidity has 
increased by 30%.  This is basic chemistry, not "nonsense".  (The fact 
that carbon dioxide, when dissolved in water, forms carbonic acid, is 
also basic chemistry.)

But yes the oceans are alkaline.  The shift in pH is from about 8.2 to 
about 8.1.  (Less alkaline = more acidic, wherever you are on the pH 
scale.)  People who have dedicated their lives to studying oceanic 
ecosystems are saying that even this ostensibly small drop in pH is 
impacting on crustacea, corals, calcifying microorganisms and other 
highly-calcium-dependent species - and therefore also on the whole 
ecosystems which depend on them for food or shelter.  (And remember, 
humans are at the top of the food chain in many of those ecosystems.)  
That is why this is a serious matter.

mark

On 2013:07:04 21:14, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:
>
> Paul O
>
> The point Andrew was making when asking that the conversation about 
> climate be moved to another site was to prevent that sort of nonsense 
> cluttering up this site which is a domestic stoves discussion list.
>
> When someone repeats a claims that the 'oceans have increased in 
> acidity by one third' and implying it is because of man-made CO2 
> emissions from fossil fuels it deserves to be labelled exactly that o 
> nonsense. The oceans are alkaline, not acidic and cannot 'increase in 
> acidity by one third' -- whatever that means.
>
> I wrote to you privately because the discussion does not belong here.
>
> Please accept the moderator's view.
>
> Thanks
>
> Crispin
>
> *From:*Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] *On 
> Behalf Of *Paul Olivier
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 04, 2013 8:09 PM
> *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> *Subject:* [Stoves] on ocean acidification
>
> In a previous email I had cited an article by Mark Bittman concerning 
> ocean acidification. Crispin responded to me off-list and said:
>
>
> /That was the most outrageous set of nonsense on oceans and CO2 I have 
> seem. What rubbish. /
>
> / The oceans are not acidic./
>
> /CO2 absorbed by water turns about 1% into carbonic acid, a fragile 
> composition with a short lifespan./
>
> /If the oceans were to absorb many many gigatons of CO2 it would 
> become slightly less alkaline./
>
> /It seems that Bittman does not even know the most basic facts about 
> oceans and just attributes everything he sees to 'AGW'. His writings 
> are not helping the reputation of science. His view are not informing 
> the discussion. His conclusions are worthy of ridicule./
>
> /Fish and mollusk populations rise and fall with the food supply. When 
> the PDO changed in 1976 there were also large population shifts. It 
> has shifted again. The shift is 100% natural and has nothing to do 
> with human fuel use./
>
> I replied to his email as follows:
>
> /Please do not label everything that you disagree with as rubbish, 
> nonsense, or as worthy of ridicule. It is hard to conduct a debate 
> when you use such language.
>
> I would like to draw your attention to the following:
> http://www.sightline.org/research/northwest-ocean-acidification/
> http://www.sightline.org/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2012/02/OA-primer1.pdf
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_acidification/
>
> /http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/story/Ocean+Acidification
> http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/story/What+is+Ocean+Acidification%3F/
>
> /I would like to ask the members of this stove list: why do we go 
> about designing stoves? Are we only concerned about poor people in 
> developing countries who sit around dirty campfires? Or do we want to 
> design stoves that at the same time address important issues such as 
> climate change, global warming and ocean acidification?
> /
> Thanks.
>
> Paul
>
> ---
> Paul A. Olivier PhD
> 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
> Dalat
> Vietnam
>
> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
> Skype address: Xpolivier
> http://www.esrla.com/
>
>
>
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