[Stoves] on ocean acidification

Paul Olivier paul.olivier at esrla.com
Fri Jul 5 00:41:09 CDT 2013


Mark,

Thanks so much for your contribution here.
We are in full agreement on this point.

Paul Olivier


On Fri, Jul 5, 2013 at 12:21 PM, Mark Bigland-Pritchard / Low Energy Design
Ltd <mark at lowenergydesign.com> wrote:

>  I wouldn't normally want to post off-topic, but I think it is necessary
> that an error be corrected before this thread is put to sleep.
>
> It is scientifically accurate to say that the acidity of the oceans has
> increased.
>
> It is well documented that the average pH of the oceans has decreased by
> about 0.1.  Because pH is a logarithmic scale, this actually means a 30%
> increase in the hydrogen ion activity.  In other words, the acidity has
> increased by 30%.  This is basic chemistry, not "nonsense".  (The fact that
> carbon dioxide, when dissolved in water, forms carbonic acid, is also basic
> chemistry.)
>
> But yes the oceans are alkaline.  The shift in pH is from about 8.2 to
> about 8.1.  (Less alkaline = more acidic, wherever you are on the pH
> scale.)  People who have dedicated their lives to studying oceanic
> ecosystems are saying that even this ostensibly small drop in pH is
> impacting on crustacea, corals, calcifying microorganisms and other
> highly-calcium-dependent species - and therefore also on the whole
> ecosystems which depend on them for food or shelter.  (And remember, humans
> are at the top of the food chain in many of those ecosystems.)  That is why
> this is a serious matter.
>
> mark
>
>
>
>
> On 2013:07:04 21:14, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:
>
>  Paul O****
>
> ** **
>
> The point Andrew was making when asking that the conversation about
> climate be moved to another site was to prevent that sort of nonsense
> cluttering up this site which is a domestic stoves discussion list.****
>
> ** **
>
> When someone repeats a claims that the ‘oceans have increased in acidity
> by one third’ and implying it is because of man-made CO2 emissions from
> fossil fuels it deserves to be labelled exactly that o nonsense. The oceans
> are alkaline, not acidic and cannot ‘increase in acidity by one third’ –
> whatever that means. ****
>
> ** **
>
> I wrote to you privately because the discussion does not belong here.****
>
> ** **
>
> Please accept the moderator’s view.****
>
> Thanks****
>
> Crispin ****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org<stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org>]
> *On Behalf Of *Paul Olivier
> *Sent:* Thursday, July 04, 2013 8:09 PM
> *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
> *Subject:* [Stoves] on ocean acidification****
>
> ** **
>
> In a previous email I had cited an article by Mark Bittman concerning
> ocean acidification. Crispin responded to me off-list and said:****
>
>
> ****
>
> *That was the most outrageous set of nonsense on oceans and CO2 I have
> seem. What rubbish. *****
>
> * The oceans are not acidic.*****
>
> *CO2 absorbed by water turns about 1% into carbonic acid, a fragile
> composition with a short lifespan.*****
>
> *If the oceans were to absorb many many gigatons of CO2 it would become
> slightly less alkaline.*****
>
> *It seems that Bittman does not even know the most basic facts about
> oceans and just attributes everything he sees to ‘AGW’. His writings are
> not helping the reputation of science. His view are not informing the
> discussion. His conclusions are worthy of ridicule.*****
>
> *Fish and mollusk populations rise and fall with the food supply. When
> the PDO changed in 1976 there were also large population shifts. It has
> shifted again. The shift is 100% natural and has nothing to do with human
> fuel use.*****
>
>  I replied to his email as follows:****
>
> *Please do not label everything that you disagree with as rubbish,
> nonsense, or as worthy of ridicule. It is hard to conduct a debate when you
> use such language.
>
> I would like to draw your attention to the following:
> http://www.sightline.org/research/northwest-ocean-acidification/
>
> http://www.sightline.org/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2012/02/OA-primer1.pdf
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_acidification*****
>
> *http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/story/Ocean+Acidification
> http://www.pmel.noaa.gov/co2/story/What+is+Ocean+Acidification%3F*****
>
> *I would like to ask the members of this stove list: why do we go about
> designing stoves? Are we only concerned about poor people in developing
> countries who sit around dirty campfires? Or do we want to design stoves
> that at the same time address important issues such as climate change,
> global warming and ocean acidification?
> *
> Thanks.****
>
> Paul****
>
> ---
> Paul A. Olivier PhD
> 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
> Dalat
> Vietnam
>
> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
> Skype address: Xpolivier
> http://www.esrla.com/ ****
>
>
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-- 
Paul A. Olivier PhD
26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
Dalat
Vietnam

Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
Skype address: Xpolivier
http://www.esrla.com/
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