[Stoves] Aprovecho Stove Camp
Cecil Cook
cec1863 at gmail.com
Wed Jul 24 05:00:05 CDT 2013
Sorry,but I hit the wrong button before I had completed my editing. Here
is the corrected version.
__________________________________________________________________
Dear Ron and fellow stovers,
Ditto the appreciation.
Can you name, describe and link us to the rocket stove from the
Philippines? Is it the three component clay ECO-KALAN C stove that was
recently introduced to the stove discussion group by Rebecca A Vermeer?
If it is this stove, can someone explain to me how the cost to produce
these three components comes - as reported by Rebecca - to $25? How can
the cost of production for a fired clay stove produced by local potters and
ceramic workers in the Philippines possibly cost that much? In Java I am
sure the indigenous stove makers would be able to produce them for $2.50 to
$3 each; the retail price would be perhaps $4 to $5.
If the same ECO-KALAN C stove is on display at Stove Camp, then can
somebody who is attending the camp find out how a ceramic stove that would
probably retail for $4 to $5 in Indonesia (all costs in) can possibly cost
a charitable stove agent in the Philippines $28 per stove to produce and
bring to market??..I understand that Rebecca is including all the costs
that her stove charity has to pay out to produce, store, transport,
distribute, promote, demonstrate and finally to market an improved stove.
There must be well established traditional stoves on the markets in her
area that sell for less than 500 pesos each ($11.50) and stove customers
are simply not willing to spend an additional 700 pesos ($16) - which may
take a low income household a month of scrimping to save - to purchase the
higher performance ECO-KALAN C stove. In the end the battle to take and
hold market share has to be fought and won in the local stove markets. The
benefits offered to a stove buyer's household have to be obvious to
consumers who will not be willing to give up the familiar conveniences of
their baseline stoves. It will be *dramatic reductions in fuel collected
or purchased* together with equally dramatic improvements in
*(i.) speed of stove ignition and smoke production during start up, *
*(ii.) ability of a stove to burn damp or wet wood, *
*(iii.) the ability of a stove to combust multiple biomass fuels, *
*(iv.) the capacity to turn up a stove's power to accelerate the cooking
process or to cook for special *
* occasions **and the extended family, *
*(v.) the capacity of an improved stove to performs both household and
home industry functions with*
* equal **facility, *
*(vi.) little or no change required in stove operation techniques and
knowledge to successfully cook on an *
* improved stove a**nd to **get full benefit of its higher
performance, and*
*(vii.) the capacity of an improved stove to replicate all of the essential
stove work functions traditionally*
* performed **by dominant baseline stove(s) or by radically
improving one or more specific stove*
* work functions **such as introducing a TLUD stove that cook like
an LPG stove thereby **minimizing soot *
* **accumulation on **pots **and pans and making a **much cleaner
kitchen possible.*
In my experience, it is the savings of money, time and effort to low income
households at the Bottom of the Pyramid rather that 'saving' the lungs,
eyes and health of stove users that will determine whether new stoves will
gradually gain an increasing share of the 'traditional' stove market
In service,
Cecil Cook
TechnoShare (SA).
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 11:49 AM, Cecil Cook <cec1863 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Ditto the appreciation.
>
> Can you name, describe and link us to the rocket stove from the
> Philippines? Is it the three component clay ECO-KALAN C stove that was
> recently introduced to the stove discussion group by Rebecca A Vermeer?
>
> If it is this stove, can someone explain to me how the cost to produce
> these three components comes - as reported by Rebecca - to $25? How can
> the cost of production for a fired clay stove produced by local potters and
> ceramic workers in the Philippines possibly cost that much? In Java I am
> sure the indigenous stove makers would be able to produce them for $2.50 to
> $3 each; the retail price would be perhaps $4 to $5.
>
> If the same ECO-KALAN C stove is on display at Stove Camp, then can
> somebody who is attending the camp find out how a ceramic stove that would
> probably retail for $4 to $5 in Indonesia (all costs in) can possibly cost
> a charitable stove agent in the Philippines $28 per stove to produce and
> bring to market??..I understand that Rebecca is including all the cost to
> her stove charity to produce, store, transport, distribute, promote,
> demonstrate and finally to market an improved stove.
>
> There must be well established traditional stoves on the markets in her
> area that sell for less than 500 pesos each ($11.50) and stove customers
> are simply not willing to spend an additional 700 pesos ($16) - which may
> take a low income household a month of scrimping to save - to purchase the
> higher performance ECO-KALAN C stove. In the end the battle to take and
> hold market share has to be fought and won in the local stove markets. The
> benefits offered to a stove buyer's household have to be obvious to
> consumers who will not be willing to give up the familiar conveniences of
> their baseline stoves. It will be *dramatic reductions in fuel collected
> or purchased* together with equally dramatic improvements in
>
> *(i.) speed of stove ignition and smoke production during start up, *
> *(ii.) ability of a stove to burn damp or wet wood, *
> *(iii.) the ability of a stove to combust multiple biomass fuels, *
> *(iv.) the capacity to turn up a stove's power to accelerate the cooking
> process or to cook for special *
> * occasions **and the extended family, *
> *(v.) the capacity of an improved stove to performs both household and
> home industry functions with*
> * equal **facility, *
> *(vi.) little or no change required in stove operation techniques and
> knowledge to successfully cook on an *
> * improved stove a**nd to **get full benefit of its higher
> performance, and*
> *(vii.) the capacity of an improved stove to replicate all of the
> essential stove work functions traditionally*
> * performed **by the dominant baseline stove(s) or by radically
> improving one or more specific stove*
> * work functions **such as introducing a TLUD stove that cooks
> very clean thereby **minimizing soot *
> *accumulation on **pots **and pans and n in a **much cleaner kitchen
> possible,*
>
> e savings of money, time and effort to low income households at the Bottom
> of the Pyramid rather that 'saving' the lungs, eyes and health of stove
> users that will determine whether new stoves will gradually gain an
> increasing share of the 'traditional' stove market.
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 23, 2013 at 4:14 PM, <rongretlarson at comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> List:
>>
>> This just a short summary of yesterday's first of five days at the
>> Aprovecho Stove Camp. This year, they are focusing on TLUDs. About 50
>> people were at the opening session, with about 20 - 25 from the different
>> parts of Aprovecho, and maybe 10 staying of those on as part of the camp.
>> The old timers here included
>> a Dean Still, who was the key organizer. I was most amazed of
>> everything here about how much Aprovecho has grown and changed over the 15
>> or so years I have known Dean (who says he will retire in a year).
>> 1. We go maybe today to a new factory for an off-shot firm
>> called InStove (Only institutional stoves (like one 100 liters). Damon
>> Ogle is with them now. A first overseas factory coming soon. Only Rocket
>> principles here.
>> 2. We will visit the factory where they are making the US
>> StoveTec
>> 3. We will visit a new 5 acre campus about 6 miles away - a
>> former high school where they will be moving to this year.
>> 4. I heard a little about a new large research grant from DoE -
>> one of four nationally,
>> 5. There were staff people all over the place - maybe more than
>> ten (?) not part of the camp.
>> 6. A key organizer who introduced Dean was Mark Hatfield.
>> 7. Owner of the Apro property was Fred Colgan - alo head of
>> InStove
>> 8. Larry Winiarski is a leader of one on 4-5 subgroups that
>> formed. Interestng oven design with a Rocket, built by a couple named
>> Anderson. Also a ceramic Rocket from Philippines.
>> 9. Dean is leading one of the 4-5 subgroups - which is mostly on
>> TLUDs, but one large plancha design (18 by 24 inch - $22) plancha from
>> Guatemala. Much of yesterday learning how to use test equipment
>>
>> b. Paul Anderson, who brought 10 flat packs of a nice looking new
>> TLUD design from Uganda, for on-site assembly.
>> Maybe 8-10 people in his subgoup. Mostly will be doing testing here on
>> (like all)
>> Paul gave a nice one hour intro to TLUDS. Both a son and grandson are
>> here.
>>
>> c. Art Donnelly at last minute decided to assemble one of his very
>> large TLUD stoves from Costa Rica. His primary air control from slight
>> tilt using a wedge at the bottom.
>>
>> Of course many new-comers. I ended up speaking most to three school
>> teachers from D.C., hoping to establish a stove design challenge for 7th
>> and 8th graders
>>
>> More coming. Questions? Ron
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
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