[Stoves] Ph.D. Thesis on TLUD Stoves.
M. Nurhuda
mnurhuda at ub.ac.id
Sun Jun 30 21:51:43 CDT 2013
Alex and all,
I can not say, since I am not expert in this respect.
Please check the attached paper to see characteristic of different grate
materials.
Kind regards
M. Nurhuda
>
> What do you think the maximum service temperature of SS 304 is in a
> stove environment?
>
> Alex
>
> On 30/06/2013 9:22 PM, M. Nurhuda wrote:
>> Paul and all,
>>
>> I agree with you. The char combustion is very dangerous to the plat
>> material of burning chamber. My experiences, the combustion chamber will
>> be damaged within 2-3 months if it is long exposed in a strong char
>> combustion mode, even the plat material is SS 304.
>>
>> Moreover, to be wise is a better way to conserve nature. The soil has
>> right to get biochar in term of combustion residue to maintain the soil
>> fertility. This, not only good for soil, but also for CO2 reduction.
>>
>> Regards
>> M. Nurhuda
>>
>>
>>
>>> Varun,
>>>
>>> You say that with the Oorja, 70% of the total energy is delivered in
>>> flaming mode and 30% in char mode. But would this not apply to all
>>> TLUDs?
>>> In my case, if I leave the fan on after the flaming mode is finished, a
>>> char mode begins. As the char is combusted, the temperature within the
>>> unit
>>> climbs incredibly (dangerously) high.
>>>
>>> This leads me to ask: why consume the char? Why not stop the process
>>> when
>>> the flaming mode comes to an end? There is an inefficiency that kicks
>>> in
>>> when char is consumed, since this takes place at a considerable
>>> distance
>>> from the pot.
>>>
>>> Thanks.
>>> Paul Olivier
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Jun 30, 2013 at 8:28 AM, Varun ShivaKumar
>>> <varun at cgpl.iisc.ernet.in>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Paul,
>>>>
>>>> Oorja is exactly TLUD. 70% of the total energy is delivered in flaming
>>>> mode which involves migratory pyrolysis front (or flame front as
>>>> discussed
>>>> in chapter 5). Only 30% energy in the left over char is delivered in
>>>> the
>>>> char mode in the manner described by you. You are correct in saying
>>>> that
>>>> it
>>>> is not TLUD in this char mode (in fact it is co-current in char mode
>>>> as
>>>> opposed to counter-current in flaming mode) . But in flaming mode it
>>>> is
>>>> exactly TLUD. I kindly request you to take this into account when you
>>>> discuss this at Aprovecho.
>>>>
>>>> Varun
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> *From:* Stoves [stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] on behalf of
>>>> rongretlarson at comcast.net [rongretlarson at comcast.net]
>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, June 30, 2013 3:17 AM
>>>> *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves; Paal Wendelbo
>>>>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Stoves] Ph.D. Thesis on TLUD Stoves.
>>>>
>>>> Paal and list.
>>>>
>>>> The thesis was inspired by the Oorja, and helped to improve it,
>>>> but
>>>> the thesis itself is much more general. The word "Oorja" rarely
>>>> appears.
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone know if there have been any Oorja test results
>>>> reported
>>>> by
>>>> any of the major stove testing labs (Aprovecho, EPA, etc)?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ron
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> *From: *"Paal Wendelbo" <paaw at online.no>
>>>> *To: *"Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <
>>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>>> *Sent: *Saturday, June 29, 2013 1:18:21 PM
>>>> *Subject: *Re: [Stoves] Ph.D. Thesis on TLUD Stoves.
>>>>
>>>> Ron and Paul O
>>>>
>>>> Into the advertising leaflet of the Oorja stove is written “at end
>>>> of
>>>> flame very little aches is left†and I have tested the stove and can
>>>> confirm it is right. I could see sparks up in the air above stove. The
>>>> grid
>>>> of cast iron 10 mm thick was white yellow about 900-1000ËšC and quite
>>>> dangerous to handle to take out some few char left.
>>>>
>>>> With regards Paal W
>>>>
>>>> *From:* rongretlarson at comcast.net
>>>> *Sent:* Thursday, June 27, 2013 10:51 PM
>>>> *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking
>>>> stoves<stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Stoves] Ph.D. Thesis on TLUD Stoves.
>>>>
>>>> Paul etal:
>>>>
>>>> I should have added there are some good discussions of the same
>>>> stove/cylinder (glass) with numerous types of fuels. And he shows
>>>> they
>>>> obey the same laws - can predict performance (front velocity, power
>>>> level
>>>> (?) - given the superficial velocty.)
>>>>
>>>> Ron
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> *From: *rongretlarson at comcast.net
>>>> *To: *"Paul Anderson" <psanders at ilstu.edu>
>>>> *Cc: *"Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <
>>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>>> *Sent: *Thursday, June 27, 2013 2:44:07 PM
>>>> *Subject: *Re: [Stoves] Ph.D. Thesis on TLUD Stoves.
>>>>
>>>> Paul:
>>>>
>>>> I know very little on the Oorja stove. But the thesis is mostly
>>>> (entirely?) on a packed bed, top lit. It is on the migratory
>>>> pyrolytic
>>>> front (MPF) - so should be applicable to all TLUDs. I would like to
>>>> hear
>>>> from any/all on whether I am getting the right reading about NOT
>>>> consuming
>>>> the char.
>>>>
>>>> Ron
>>>>
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> *From: *"Paul Anderson" <psanders at ilstu.edu>
>>>> *To: *"Discussion of biomass cooking stoves" <
>>>> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>>> *Cc: *rongretlarson at comcast.net
>>>> *Sent: *Thursday, June 27, 2013 2:12:57 PM
>>>> *Subject: *Re: [Stoves] Ph.D. Thesis on TLUD Stoves.
>>>>
>>>> Ron,
>>>>
>>>> I am in Uganda now and have not had a chance to see the thesis.
>>>> Thank
>>>> you for the comments.
>>>>
>>>> About #3, the Oorja stove is rather heavy for turning over, has a
>>>> smallish
>>>> fuel chamber meaning not much char and only short TLUD burns, and has
>>>> a
>>>> loose cast iron cup in the bottom that would fall out if the unit is
>>>> tipped
>>>> over to remove the char. It is designed to NOT be tipped over for
>>>> saving
>>>> char.
>>>>
>>>> It is intentionally designed to have continuous burning with the fire
>>>> in
>>>> the bottom consuming char. And when doing that, the Oorja is NOT
>>>> operating in the TLUD mode which is specifically characterized by the
>>>> migratory pyrolytic front (MPF), but the Oorja is not with MPF after
>>>> the
>>>> rather small initial load of fuel has been pyrolyzed.
>>>>
>>>> Therefore, the Oorja (and most others with forced air FA) essentially
>>>> is
>>>> NOT a TLUD because it is operated without the MPF except for the
>>>> initial
>>>> batch of fuel.
>>>>
>>>> I will be addressing this topic more at the Stove Camp at Aprovecho on
>>>> 22
>>>> - 26 July.
>>>>
>>>> Paul
>>>>
>>>> Paul S. Anderson, PhD aka "Dr TLUD"
>>>> Email: psanders at ilstu.edu Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
>>>> Website: www.drtlud.com
>>>>
>>>> On 6/27/2013 2:43 PM, rongretlarson at comcast.net wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Julien and list
>>>>
>>>> 1. Thanks very much for providing this cite. I have read most and
>>>> find
>>>> it to be a well done thesis. I wish we had more like it.
>>>>
>>>> 2. The concepts of char and TLUDs are in here thoroughly. But
>>>> nothing
>>>> on
>>>> the idea of a stove designed to make char. All char is presumed and
>>>> desired to be consumed.
>>>>
>>>> 3. My conclusion (would like to hear more) is that a good case is
>>>> made
>>>> (not intentionally) for NOT consuming the produced char in a TLUD
>>>> (this
>>>> one fan-powered and widely sold in India as the "Oorja" (started by
>>>> BP)).
>>>> Very little gain in overall efficiency as the char is consumed.
>>>>
>>>> 4. A major advance was his study of the importance of ash in this
>>>> "char"
>>>> period as a poor radiator - thereby responsible for (undesired) high
>>>> char
>>>> temperatures.
>>>>
>>>> 5. Most everything shown as a function of superficial velocity (Vs)
>>>> -
>>>> with 16-17 cm/sec shown as key dividing point in stove behavior..
>>>> Above
>>>> which velocity one swtches from char production to char consumption.
>>>> I
>>>> have not seen this before.
>>>>
>>>> For his highly automated fan system, measuring Vs was apparently
>>>> not
>>>> so difficult. Anyone able to give a way to get an easy estimate of
>>>> Vs,
>>>> when there is only natural draft?
>>>>
>>>> 6. Quite a bit on the importance of low emissions of CO.
>>>>
>>>> 7. Good information on both the experimental and computational side
>>>> of
>>>> top-lit (packed bed) stoves. Not much here for rocket stoves.
>>>>
>>>> Have I got #3 right?
>>>>
>>>> Ron
>>>>
>>>>
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>>>
>>> --
>>> Paul A. Olivier PhD
>>> 26/5 Phu Dong Thien Vuong
>>> Dalat
>>> Vietnam
>>>
>>> Louisiana telephone: 1-337-447-4124 (rings Vietnam)
>>> Mobile: 090-694-1573 (in Vietnam)
>>> Skype address: Xpolivier
>>> http://www.esrla.com/
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>>
>>
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>
>
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