[Stoves] Water heating with TLUDs

Paul Anderson psanders at ilstu.edu
Sat Oct 5 12:45:25 CDT 2013 

Lanny,

Your reservations about the water heating with TLUDs reflect our society 
with affluence and so much convenience.   But in the low income 
(extremely low compared with American and European incomes), the concept 
of heating a quantity of water for prompt usage (no storage = no 
insulation) and for quite small tasks (small quantities that are 
different from our bath-laundry-kitchen needs) is potentially highly 
viable.

There are clearly at least two "sets of needs for hot water", one for 
the truly poor (not Americans who are poor) and another for those with 
financial resources (some of which are in the developing societies.)   
All of our efforts are needed.

Paul

Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
Skype: paultlud      Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:  www.drtlud.com

On 10/5/2013 12:04 PM, Lanny Henson wrote:
> 5 or 10 liters is not enough water for a bath, laundry, kitchen clean 
> up and hot tea for a family. I am thinking a stove that will heat a 20 
> liter pot would be more practical. A 40 quart would be even better but 
> would probably be out of the price range.
> And I wonder if a TLUD is the best stove for a water heater. Aren't 
> they one shot and then you have to reload. How about a stove that will 
> hold water hot for a long period with the ability to throw in 
> a few chunks of wood in every hour or so to maintain the heat.
> And dispensing is an issue to consider, probably just dipping will be 
> most practical.
> Lanny
>
>     ----- Original Message -----
>     *From:* crispinpigott at gmail.com <mailto:crispinpigott at gmail.com>
>     *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>     <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org> ; Nolbert Muhumuza
>     <mailto:muhumuza at gmail.com>
>     *Cc:* biochar at yahoogroups.com <mailto:biochar at yahoogroups.com>
>     *Sent:* Saturday, October 05, 2013 12:13 PM
>     *Subject:* Re: [Stoves] Water heating with TLUDs
>
>     Dear Paul and All
>
>     You are correct re the kitchens.
>
>     So with the cat out of the bag, there will be a water heating
>     category separate from stoves and it is highly suited to TLUD's
>     that require no attention. I suggest the 5 to 10 litre capacity
>     range - one does not need to fill it of course.
>
>     Because I know it is quite possible to get a very high heat
>     transfer efficiency with a gas flame from biomass, the target
>     performance will be high to qualify for a subsidy. It will be
>     subject to the usual system efficiency calculation so if you want
>     to make char it has to come out of energy savings.
>
>     I view them as fuel, fire and forget systems.  No interaction
>     should be required from the operator after ignition.
>
>     To share some ideas, think of it this way: to boil 5 litres of
>     water takes about 2 MJ of heat.  At 50% system efficiency that
>     takes about 250-300 g of fuel so that sets the combustion chamber
>     size. it is going to have to burn pretty much completely in about
>     15-20 minutes (rate of 1.2 kg/hr). If it makes a significant
>     amount of char, say 15%, the HTE will have to be higher and the
>     fuel load larger.
>
>     You get the idea. I think if a skirt is used it can serve as a
>     chimney and it will speed the combustion rate which will improve
>     the heat flux rate (watts/cm^2) to boil faster.
>
>     Please give it some thought - how you would solves0 this design
>     problem.
>
>     Regards
>     Crispin
>
>     Sent from my BlackBerry® PlayBook^(TM)
>
>
>     Nolbert at Awamu and to all Stovers
>
>     [And i am sending this to a few others who are not on the Stoves
>     Listserv.   And sending it
>     to the Biochar List because it shows a very good way to have a
>     useful task (heating water) while using TLUD
>     technology to make biochar.]
>
>     You received this whole message from the Stoves Listserv, but I am
>     emphasizing part of it.
>     Crispin wrote in reference to Indonesia:
>>     It means about 70 of the whole population is using wood for heating water,
>>     with a smaller fraction using it more and more as income decreases.
>>
>>     Cecil says kitchens are becoming divided into a clean
>     [ he probably mistyped this and it meant to say "UNclean or rustic
>     or 'outside' (that I observed in India)  "]
>>     portion with wood and
>>     dirty pots, and a clean side with LPG and clean pots. There is an
>>     opportunity in the market for water-heating-only devices which are highly
>>     suited to TLUD powering because the task is fixed and predictable, plus it
>>     operates at full power all the time. Think of it as a biomass-powered
>>     kettle.
>     THIS is an extremely important niche for Awamu and for TLUDs
>     everywhere.  Just one highly common, frequent (maybe even multiple
>     times per day) and useful application (in this case water heating
>     for bathing or for boiling to drink) to provide sufficient market
>     and demand for introducing the TLUD technology to households and
>     to schools.  TLUD convenience as pointed out by Crispin and the
>     use of less expensive fuel could turn the tide of acceptance in
>     some communities.
>
>     We need to think of "kitchens" or separate areas where the pots
>     are black and that does not matter.
>
>     Note that this is not just for boiling water for drinking, which
>     can be ANOTHER major utility of TLUD stoves.
>
>     Doc
>
>     Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
>     Email:psanders at ilstu.edu    
>     Skype: paultlud      Phone: +1-309-452-7072
>     Website:www.drtlud.com
>
>
>
>     -------- Original Message --------
>     Subject: 	Re: [Stoves] NE Biochar takes the C-cake
>     Date: 	Sat, 05 Oct 2013 00:25:40 +0700
>     From: 	Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <crispinpigott at gmail.com>
>     Reply-To: 	Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>     <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>     To: 	'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'
>     <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>
>
>
>     Dear Ron
>
>     > Anything more on wood prices in town would be helpful.  And for anything
>     in large quantities.
>     > Any data on the main cooking fuels if not char?  Propane, electricity,
>     etc.  Much wood?
>
>     The study just finished is being compiled. Early indications are that a
>     rough split of 40% cooking primarily with wood, 40% cooking primarily with
>     (subsidised) LPG, 20% with kerosene and electricity.
>
>     Of the 40% using LPG, 70% are using wood to heat water.
>     Of the 40% using wood, over 70% are using LPG to some extent, even in places
>     quite far from a supply.
>
>     It means about 70 of the whole population is using wood for heating water,
>     with a smaller fraction using it more and more as income decreases.
>
>     Cecil says kitchens are becoming divided into a clean portion with wood and
>     dirty pots, and a clean side with LPG and clean pots. There is an
>     opportunity in the market for water-heating-only devices which are highly
>     suited to TLUD powering because the task is fixed and predictable, plus it
>     operates at full power all the time. Think of it as a biomass-powered
>     kettle.
>
>     Regards
>     Crispin
>
>
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Stoves mailing list
>
>     to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>     stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
>     to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>     http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
>     for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
>     http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     _______________________________________________
>     Stoves mailing list
>
>     to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>     stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
>     to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>     http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
>     for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web
>     site:
>     http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>     _______________________________________________
>     Stoves mailing list
>
>     to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
>     stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
>     to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
>     http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
>     for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web
>     site:
>     http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Stoves mailing list
>
> to Send a Message to the list, use the email address
> stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> to UNSUBSCRIBE or Change your List Settings use the web page
> http://lists.bioenergylists.org/mailman/listinfo/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org
>
> for more Biomass Cooking Stoves,  News and Information see our web site:
> http://stoves.bioenergylists.org/
>

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20131005/27e920ed/attachment.html>

More information about the Stoves mailing list