[Stoves] [biochar-policy] World Population and Daily Income CORRECTION

Sun Jul 13 19:07:46 CDT 2014

My apologies for an error in my previous posting... I wrongly posted the name "Cecil Clarke", when it should have been "Cecil E. Cook, Jr."

Following is a corrective note that much better describes Cecil's inputs:

" Dear KevinJust for the record (and thanks for recognising his work which is little recognized outside the World Bank and GIZ) it is Cecil E Cook Jr. He is an American who studied at Antioch College and Harvard. 
Also for the record he has been a significant force in bring to stove development and acceptability evaluation the same sort of realism that the industrial designer‎s brought. 
In the latter category are Biolite, Arivi, Oorja, Parasafe, Philips fan stove, Bosch vegetable oil stove and others of course. 
While barnstormers and garage mechanics sometime create entirely new inventions the majority of successes are the result of the work of people who are literally working in the relevant field. For pretty obvious reasons. 

I didn't see the video and am unlikely to but I can tell from the tone of the responses it is unlikely to impact stove development or implementation. 

Regards 
Crispin " 

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: 'Kevin' kchisholm at ca.inter.net [biochar-policy] 
  To: Tom Miles ; 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves' ; 'Biochar-Policy' 
  Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2014 4:30 PM
  Subject: Re: [Stoves] [biochar-policy] World Population and Daily Income

  Dear Tom
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Tom Miles 
    To: 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves' ; 'Biochar-Policy' ; 'Kevin Chisholm' 
    Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 1:06 PM
    Subject: RE: [Stoves] [biochar-policy] World Population and Daily Income

    Kevin,

    Immigration politics are for discussion on other lists but it is good to highlight this need and the biochar potential. The answers of course vary. As you well know a wide variety of solutions have been demonstrated and many are in production. 

    # Yes, many clever and practical solutions have indeed been developed, and have had excellent acceptance.

    # Another very interesting fact put forward in the video, is that there are a further 2.6 billion people earning between $2/day and the average Mexican wage. There thus seem to be three fundamental markets shaping up:

    1: The "Wealthy Market: 1.6 Billion People (22% of World Population)

    2: The "Middle Market", with incomes between average Mexican and $2 per day: 2.6 billion (36% of World Population)

    3: The  "Low End Market", with incomes less than $2 per day: 3 Billion (42% of World Population)

    # I don't know how to put these Markets on a common footing, specifically, if the "Low End Market" has an income of $2 per capita per day, (PCPD), what is the PCPD income for the "Middle" and "Wealthy" Markets? Perhaps this can be derived from data available through the World Factbook, https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/mx.html

    These questions have been topics on the stoves and gasification lists for more than 18 years and on the biochar list for the last eight years. 

    # It was not my intent to suggest that "I have discovered that there are poor people in the World." Rather,  I was impressed with the vividness of Beck's demonstration, and felt it would be helpful to the Stoves and Biochar Lists to perhaps better appreciate where they have the potential to make the greatest impact. The "Middle" and "Low End" markets have about 4 times the population of the "Wealthy Market", and are growing more rapidly.

    In about 1996 Ron Larson was working with others on ceramic stoves that could also make charcoal. He brought us to focus on biochar stoves in about 2006. A great example of a biochar stove is the Estufa Finca that is being disseminated on coffee plantations in Costa Rica bySeachar.org. As with other stoves it is more than just the technology but the systems for providing or making the stove and continuous support and application of the char that makes the biochar stove work. In some cases it makes more sense to make char in a community kiln. Using the char for improving soil fertility for local food has been amply demonstrated at the individual stove level and the farm and community scales by Seachar, by Sai Bhaskar Reddy in India and many others. Microgasification with the TLUD a natural char maker and will be the topic of the upcoming Stoves Camp at Aprovecho in Oregon. 

    As Ron has stated there are many sources. Many have been discussed on these lists. For those who are seriously interested see: 

    Estufa Finca www.seachar.org

    Geo  http://www.e-geo.org/ 

    TLUD   http://www.drtlud.com/ 

    Microgasification http://bit.ly/1kLHuDs 

    # Others who have made significant contributions to Stove and Biochar in the Middle and Low End Markets would include AD Karve, Crispin Pemberton-Piggot, Cecil Clarke, and Paul Oliver. 

    # All the above are to be commended for their good work, and others who may have missed the significance of the 2nd and 3rd Markets are encouraged to expand their efforts into them, for maximum positive impact of their contributions.

    Best wishes,

    Kevin

    Tom   

    From: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On Behalf Of Ronal W. Larson
    Sent: Friday, July 11, 2014 7:28 AM
    To: Biochar-Policy; Kevin Chisholm
    Cc: Discussion of biomass
    Subject: Re: [Stoves] [biochar-policy] World Population and Daily Income

    Kevin  cc List

                I am not going to respond.  There is close to zero connection between US immigration policy and your questions.  I take your questions to be an excuse to bring in a non-germane video by a master propaganda artist.

                I googled for Roy Beck and didn’t like what I saw.  Others should look at what is said by an organization I admire (http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2009/spring/lie-down-with-dogs)   

    Beck is listed as a mentor for my former Congressman,  Tom Tancredo - who is as racist as they come (just came in second in the Colorado Republican Gubernatorial race).  I can’t believe that Beck has any interest in increasing US Foreign Aid for topics like biochar and char-making stoves.   The American people (even R’s) are overwhelmingly for the immigration reform bill already passed by the US Senate.  It is held up by the Teaparty R’s - for what seems to me to be rcist reasons.  Why US immigration policy is important to you, a Canadian, is unclear.  I am not for increasing immigration;  I am for passing this reform legislation - opposed by Tancredo, the Tea Party and Beck

                 In any case, this list broke off from the stoves list - which is where your second question belongs, as I’m sure you know.

                There is plenty on this list archives to answer your first question.  You have continually knocked everything possible about biochar - and this seems in the same vein, although veiled.

    Ron

    On Jul 11, 2014, at 12:38 AM, 'Kevin' kchisholm at ca.inter.net [biochar-policy] <biochar-policy at yahoogroups.com> wrote:

    This video Clip

    http://www.youtube.com/embed/LPjzfGChGlE

    is about US Immigration Policy.

    World population is about 7.2 billion people ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population )

    The Video Clip states that about 3 billion people earn an average of LESS than $2 per day. Expressed in different terms, 41.6% of the World Population earns less than $2 per day.

    This brings up 2 interesting questions:

    1: ===> What can biochar do for these people, and what would it have to cost, to be affordable to them?

    2: ===> What kind of stoves do these people really need, and how much must they be delivered for, in order for them to be a sensible investment?

    Kevin

  __._,_.___

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
  Posted by: "Kevin" <kchisholm at ca.inter.net> 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

        Reply via web post  • Reply to sender  • Reply to group  • Start a New Topic  • Messages in this topic (5)  

  Visit Your Group 
   • Privacy • Unsubscribe • Terms of Use 

  .

   __,_._,___
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.bioenergylists.org/pipermail/stoves_lists.bioenergylists.org/attachments/20140713/1c7c4fdc/attachment.html>