[Stoves] [biochar-policy] World Population and Daily Income

Sun Jul 13 20:46:12 CDT 2014

Dear Kevin,
my daughter started a firm for selling non-polluting cookstoves using
biomass based fuels. For the first five years, we focussed mainly on rural
clients and lost money, till we realised that the the villagers in India
did not want to use biomass based cookstoves. They saw the urbanites using
LPG stoves, how convenient it was to cook with LPG and how cheaply it was
being made available by the Government to urbanites. We now sell our
products primarily to environmentally conscious urban rich and have started
to earn some profits.
Yours
A.D.Karve

On Mon, Jul 14, 2014 at 1:00 AM, Kevin <kchisholm at ca.inter.net> wrote:

>  Dear Tom
>
>  ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Tom Miles <tmiles at trmiles.com>
> *To:* 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'
> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org> ; 'Biochar-Policy'
> <biochar-policy at yahoogroups.com> ; 'Kevin Chisholm'
> <kchisholm at ca.inter.net>
> *Sent:* Friday, July 11, 2014 1:06 PM
> *Subject:* RE: [Stoves] [biochar-policy] World Population and Daily Income
>
>  Kevin,
>
>
>
> Immigration politics are for discussion on other lists but it is good to
> highlight this need and the biochar potential. The answers of course vary.
> As you well know a wide variety of solutions have been demonstrated and
> many are in production.
>
>
>
> # Yes, many clever and practical solutions have indeed been developed, and
> have had excellent acceptance.
>
>
>
> # Another very interesting fact put forward in the video, is that there
> are a further 2.6 billion people earning between $2/day and the average
> Mexican wage. There thus seem to be three fundamental markets shaping up:
>
> 1: The "Wealthy Market: 1.6 Billion People (22% of World Population)
>
> 2: The "Middle Market", with incomes between average Mexican and $2 per
> day: 2.6 billion (36% of World Population)
>
> 3: The  "Low End Market", with incomes less than $2 per day: 3 Billion
> (42% of World Population)
>
>
>
> # I don't know how to put these Markets on a common footing, specifically,
> if the "Low End Market" has an income of $2 per capita per day, (PCPD),
> what is the PCPD income for the "Middle" and "Wealthy" Markets? Perhaps
> this can be derived from data available through the World Factbook,
> https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/mx.html
>
>
>
> These questions have been topics on the stoves and gasification lists for
> more than 18 years and on the biochar list for the last eight years.
>
>
>
> # It was not my intent to suggest that "I have discovered that there are
> poor people in the World." Rather,  I was impressed with the vividness of
> Beck's demonstration, and felt it would be helpful to the Stoves and
> Biochar Lists to perhaps better appreciate where they have the potential to
> make the greatest impact. The "Middle" and "Low End" markets have about 4
> times the population of the "Wealthy Market", and are growing more rapidly.
>
>
>
>
>
> In about 1996 Ron Larson was working with others on ceramic stoves that
> could also make charcoal. He brought us to focus on biochar stoves in about
> 2006. A great example of a biochar stove is the Estufa Finca that is being
> disseminated on coffee plantations in Costa Rica bySeachar.org. As with
> other stoves it is more than just the technology but the systems for
> providing or making the stove and continuous support and application of the
> char that makes the biochar stove work. In some cases it makes more sense
> to make char in a community kiln. Using the char for improving soil
> fertility for local food has been amply demonstrated at the individual
> stove level and the farm and community scales by Seachar, by Sai Bhaskar
> Reddy in India and many others. Microgasification with the TLUD a natural
> char maker and will be the topic of the upcoming Stoves Camp at Aprovecho
> in Oregon.
>
>
>
> As Ron has stated there are many sources. Many have been discussed on
> these lists. For those who are seriously interested see:
>
> Estufa Finca www.seachar.org
>
> Geo  http://www.e-geo.org/
>
> TLUD   http://www.drtlud.com/
>
> Microgasification http://bit.ly/1kLHuDs
>
>
>
> # Others who have made significant contributions to Stove and Biochar in
> the Middle and Low End Markets would include AD Karve, Crispin
> Pemberton-Piggot, Cecil Clarke, and Paul Oliver.
>
>
>
> # All the above are to be commended for their good work, and others who
> may have missed the significance of the 2nd and 3rd Markets are encouraged
> to expand their efforts into them, for maximum positive impact of their
> contributions.
>
>
>
> Best wishes,
>
>
>
> Kevin
>
>
>
> Tom
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Ronal W. Larson
> *Sent:* Friday, July 11, 2014 7:28 AM
> *To:* Biochar-Policy; Kevin Chisholm
> *Cc:* Discussion of biomass
> *Subject:* Re: [Stoves] [biochar-policy] World Population and Daily Income
>
>
>
> Kevin  cc List
>
>
>
>             I am not going to respond.  There is close to zero connection
> between US immigration policy and your questions.  I take your questions to
> be an excuse to bring in a non-germane video by a master propaganda artist.
>
>
>
>             I googled for Roy Beck and didn't like what I saw.  Others
> should look at what is said by an organization I admire (
> http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2009/spring/lie-down-with-dogs)
>
>
>
>
> Beck is listed as a mentor for my former Congressman,  Tom Tancredo - who
> is as racist as they come (just came in second in the Colorado Republican
> Gubernatorial race).  I can't believe that Beck has any interest in
> increasing US Foreign Aid for topics like biochar and char-making stoves.
> The American people (even R's) are overwhelmingly for the immigration
> reform bill already passed by the US Senate.  It is held up by the Teaparty
> R's - for what seems to me to be rcist reasons.  Why US immigration policy
> is important to you, a Canadian, is unclear.  I am not for increasing
> immigration;  I am for passing this reform legislation - opposed by
> Tancredo, the Tea Party and Beck
>
>
>
>              In any case, this list broke off from the stoves list -
> which is where your second question belongs, as I'm sure you know.
>
>
>
>             There is plenty on this list archives to answer your first
> question.  You have continually knocked everything possible about biochar -
> and this seems in the same vein, although veiled.
>
>
>
> Ron
>
>
>
>
>
> On Jul 11, 2014, at 12:38 AM, 'Kevin' kchisholm at ca.inter.net
> [biochar-policy] <biochar-policy at yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>    
>
> This video Clip
>
> http://www.youtube.com/embed/LPjzfGChGlE
>
> is about US Immigration Policy.
>
>
>
> World population is about 7.2 billion people (
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population )
>
>
>
> The Video Clip states that about 3 billion people earn an average of LESS
> than $2 per day. Expressed in different terms, 41.6% of the World
> Population earns less than $2 per day.
>
>
>
> This brings up 2 interesting questions:
>
>
>
> 1: ===> What can biochar do for these people, and what would it have to
> cost, to be affordable to them?
>
> 2: ===> What kind of stoves do these people really need, and how much must
> they be delivered for, in order for them to be a sensible investment?
>
>
>
> Kevin
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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-- 
***
Dr. A.D. Karve
Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)
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