[Stoves] Difficulties about standards and goals .. was...Re: Guatemala meeting about tests and standards

Mon Nov 24 10:58:32 CST 2014

Dear Ranyee,    (and to all Stovers)

Thank you for your reply and also thanks for all the hard work done by 
you and the various committees.  We know that the work is not easy.   
And most of us (including guys like me) have chosen to not be on those 
working groups, although we are aware that individuals can still join them.

We who are not on the committees hear of the current status of 
standards, and attempt to present our stoves in light of those 
standards.   We always hear that the standards are not finalized.   But 
we do not know the degree of "finalization" that exists.

There is a vast difference between "finalization that is almost at 
acceptance" and "finalization that is likely NOT to happen" for some 
test or other.   We simply do not know, but from my perspective (based 
on my past experiences at numerous Stove Camps and ETHOS meetings and 
elsewhere), the Tiers system and the WBT have been perceived as "close 
to acceptance."   But that seems LESS certain now than in past months 
and years.  Personally, I do not like surprises, so I much prefer having 
the realities and options out in the open.

Related, but on a slightly different note, I have some concerns about 
the stated importance of standards and the realities of implementations 
of standards.  At the GACC Cookstove Summit 4 days ago, three statements 
struck me.   One is the declaration that 20 million improved cookstoves 
have been accomplished / distributed thus far (by 2014).   We all 
applaud that accomplishment.

The second statement was by Ben West who pointed out that most of the 
improves stoves thus far have been at the Tier 1 and Tier 2 levels, with 
no major numbers (nor industrial production) of stoves in Tiers 3 and 
4.  That appears to be true and needed to be said, and repeated here.

The third statement refers to the evident medical fact that even the 
current definition of Tier 4 stoves will not accomplish the desired 
health impacts, which can be attained by LPG and electric stoves.

Ouch!!  We, the stoves community, are accomplishing our goals while not 
accomplishing our goals.   And we can ask whether or not another 20 to 
30 million stoves at Tiers 1 and 2 are on target or not.   And which 
targets?   100 million by 2020?    or the health impact to stop 4 
million deaths per year?

This is not an easy situation.   To do nothing would be far worse.   To 
do only the near-perfect is not plausible.   To do the best we can is 
the only reasonable alternative.   And there are different opinions 
about what is "the best we can do."

I want to say "thank you" to everyone who is working on improvement of 
cooking stoves for those in need.   Everyone includes the donors, 
administrators, finance and business management, production line, 
innovators, sales, and also the stove users.   We all have much work cut 
out for us to do!!!!

Paul

Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
Skype: paultlud      Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:  www.drtlud.com

On 11/24/2014 7:30 AM, Ranyee Chiang wrote:
>
> Dear all,
>
> There is a general summary of the meeting available here, and how the 
> outcomes of Guatemala fit with the overall progress: 
> http://www.cleancookstoves.org/blog/progress-report-october-2014.html. 
> The detailed summaries of each Working Group's discussion is only 
> available to Working Group members, since there are many discussions 
> and decisions that are in progress.  Please see this website for 
> information about how to join the standards process: 
> http://www.cleancookstoves.org/our-work/standards-and-testing/guidelines-and-standards/
>
> Regarding laboratory testing, I also would like to provide a 
> clarification on some earlier responses to this thread. Because the 
> discussions are still ongoing, please be aware that specific decisions 
> have not been finalized.  We do have general agreement about the 
> approach that we will take in working together.  There are no methods 
> that have been rejected.  And there are no methods that have been 
> accepted. The general agreement is to work together and to take the 
> best components of test methods and develop a robust framework and 
> procedures for testing.  In fact, I encourage people to look at the 
> vast commonalities that already exist among different groups.  There 
> are far more similarities than there are differences.  We will also 
> continue the discussion on how best to communicate results to both 
> technical and non-technical audiences.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Ranyee
>
> *From:* Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>>
> *Date:* November 21, 2014, 7:29:26 PM EST
> *To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves 
> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>>
> *Subject:* *[Stoves] Guatemala meeting about tests and standards*
> *Reply-To:* Discussion of biomass cooking stoves 
> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>>
>
>     Dear Stovers,
>
>     There was a meeting about tests and standards of stoves in
>     Guatemala a month or so ago.   Is there any summary report?  Or
>     could those who were there make some comments, please.
>
>     I assume there is a list somewhere of who are on the ISO / WBT /
>     IWA / XYZ committee.   And how many showed up?
>
>     Nothing was said about this at the GACC 2 day meeting just
>     concluded, so I thought I would ask.
>
>     Thanks in advance,
>
>     Paul
>
>     -- 
>     Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
>     Email: psanders at ilstu.edu <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>
>     Skype: paultlud      Phone: +1-309-452-7072
>     Website: www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com>
>
>
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