[Stoves] Mongolian stove for heating

Tue May 19 10:16:05 CDT 2015

Crispin and all,

Your message is very useful about several important points:

1.  Important heating-stove and air quality work is being done in 
Mongolia.   Congratulations to all who are involved.   Seems the World 
Bank is the big backer.

2.  Information flow about these efforts is horrible.   Our ONLY source 
of info has been Crispin.   THANKS!!!!    Otherwise, this is almost off 
of the radar for Stoves discussions openly on  the Internet.   I 
searched for
> Ulaanbaatar Clean Air Project (UB-CAP)
and saw some reports that were more about goals, etc.   I did not do a 
thorough search.     Please somebody check fully and confirm or correct 
me and guide us to the data.   But if I am correct, this lack of 
knowledge is a MAJOR deficiency in our networking.

Very interesting that even Crispin (an adviser to the project, but about 
emissions and evidently not about stove design / manufacturing) does not 
have clear photos / tech drawings / and other info about the stoves 
themselves.

3.  The fuel is wet lignite with over 50% volatiles. FANTASTIC!!!   TLUD 
stoves thrive on getting volatiles released from solid fuel, and THEN do 
the clean burning a few centimeters away!!!!

4.  The stoves are heavy (high mass which is good for heating-stoves) 
with cast iron and ceramic (which is great for withstanding the higher 
temperatures of burning some (maybe much or all) of the final carbon 
(similar to coking coal once the volatiles are gone) at relatively high 
temperatures for the "typical sheet-metal TLUD stoves" for tropical 
climates.

5.  The GACC and the EPA programs about cookstoves do not (I believe) 
include COAL-burning stoves.   This needs to be corrected.   I certainly 
hope it is resolved well before the November GACC Forum in Ghana.   The 
success in Mongolia should be well documented and well disseminated.

Note:   Fossil fuels increase the final CO2 in the atmosphere, but that 
CO2 is "acceptable" in some circles, such as by those who promote LPG, 
which is extremely clean burning (but is carbon positive).   Allowing 
for that, the issue of CLEAN fuel is about other emissions (black 
carbon, methane, Particulate Matter PM, CO etc.).   Therefore, there are 
NO DIRTY FUELS, but only DIRTY STOVES that cannot burn the fuels well.   
Kerosene (parafin) dripped into a TLUD or Rocket or other stove will 
give a dirty fire.  That is a user error, not a stove error.   Countless 
examples could be given of inappropriate burning of fuels.   But what is 
important is that any one type of fuel can be cleanly burned in at least 
ONE design of stove.

Related:   Even if we could have one of the Mongolian TLUD stoves 
available for viewing and testing, most certainly the same fuel (high 
volatile wet lignite) would be needed for any appropriate testing of the 
stove.   Different types of coal would probably not burn as cleanly in 
that stove.

6.  We (the collective "we the Stovers") could certainly benefit from 
further information from Mongolia.   I suspect that a Chinese-speaking 
American engineer-type person could greatly assist with this.   I am 
wondering how much the Mongolian advancement is already being introduced 
into northern China.   Or is there a "not invented here" barrier to the 
spread of the progress?

Paul

Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
Skype: paultlud      Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:  www.drtlud.com

On 5/19/2015 12:22 AM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:
>
> Dear Paul
>
> Actually I am not aware of the links to the stoves – I just don’t deal 
> with that side the equation. Um…how about looking on line for 
> Ulaanbaatar Clean Air Project (UB-CAP) and see if they have something 
> on their website. It is likely to be in Mongolian which is written 
> with a Russian script so it will be hard to follow.
>
> Most of the stove that pass are some form of TLUD gasifier. At the 
> moment only two people are making pretty good cross draft stoves. One 
> is a direct reproduction of the GTZ7 which can be extremely clean. I 
> recall it has negative PM emissions as early as 12 minutes after ignition.
>
> The fuel is wet lignite. I would not describe it as ‘low quality’ 
> which I found out only means it has volatiles above 20% of dry mass. I 
> would not describe it as ‘low’ quality but it has >50% volatiles! I 
> think it is the best coal I have ever seen in the world. It is easy to 
> light and can burn extremely cleanly shortly after ignition if the 
> combustion environment is right. Obviously several companies have it 
> right. If the coal was made into pellets it would be even cleaner 
> burning. They are still burning lump coal ‘as it arrives’. Big pieces 
> are broken up of course.
>
> The promoted stoves run from I think $80 to $270. Most are cast iron 
> with ceramic interiors. They have to have a two year guarantee.
>
> Regards
>
> Crispin
>
> Crispin,
>
> Please direct us to info including photos about the Mongolian stove 
> for heating.   I think you have previously stated that it is burning 
> low-grade coal, right?   And it is some variation of a gasifier, 
> correct?   And at what cost per stove?
>
> Paul
>
>
>
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