[Stoves] History of clean Chinese stove development. Re: Rights about stove designs Re: [biochar-stoves]
Paul Anderson
psanders at ilstu.edu
Mon Sep 14 17:52:03 CDT 2015
Dean,
The photo did not come through. Please send again.
I am continually amazed by the Chinese stoves and programs.
Paul
Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: www.drtlud.com
On 9/13/2015 5:51 PM, Dean Still wrote:
>
>
> Hi Paul,
>
> Did the photo come through?
>
> The honeycomb coal briquettes can be lit with an electric device that
> quickly sets fire
> to the many interior vertical tunnels. When lit in this way the gases
> made below all pass up
> into the burning tunnels in the top most briquette which promotes
> cleaner combustion.
>
> When the top briquette is not lit before being placed on top of the
> lower briquettes there is a lot of smoke.
>
> Millions of these stoves are in use in China. The government is trying
> to switch to natural gas especially because
> coal burning produces carcinogens.
>
> These stoves remind me of TLUDs because they are batch loaded, the
> fire is burning on top of the vertically loaded fuel,
> and gases pass up into the burning tunnels.
>
> The primary air enters from below and the secondary air passes up in
> gaps between the briquettes and the walls of the stove.
> Adding more secondary air helped to more completely burn up the CO.
>
> Best,
>
> Dean
>
> On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 1:00 PM, Dean Still <deankstill at gmail.com
> <mailto:deankstill at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi Paul,
>
> Here's a Chinese Tom Reed type forced air stove with primary and
> secondary air.
>
> Xunda makes great stoves and has been at the GACC forums, etc.
>
> We have seen many Chinese batch fed natural draft and forced air
> stoves and I think that Crispin and Ron have gone to stove expos
> in China?
>
> https://exportpages.com/en/product/biomass-stove/129608/
>
> The TLUD is a great idea and it reinforces how useful it is, if it
> was made in lots of places.
>
> The insulated Rocket stove was already in Nepal and Tibet and
> hayboxes!
>
> I hope to hear from someone in China about the history of cooking
> stoves.
>
> I went to a museum in Ningbo that had a big map on the wall
> showing the 2,000 year history of stove export by sea from China
> to India and Africa.
>
> I wonder what kind of stoves were developed over such a long
> period of time?
>
> Best,
>
> Dean
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 10:05 AM, Paul Anderson
> <psanders at ilstu.edu <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>> wrote:
>
> Dean and all, (To post at
> www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com> , but all replies via
> the Listservs, please.)
>
> It is remarkable how the documentation of the development of
> clean-burning stoves in China is so scarce. If you can
> influence anyone to actually substantiate what you have
> written in your email below and put it into English, that
> would be a great service.
>
> Instead, the evidence that comes from China today is that the
> air pollution from the coal burning stoves is horrible and
> that they are wanting solutions. And I doubt that the
> principles of TLUD-type combustion are being used with those
> hundreds of millions of stoves that you mention.
>
> Crispin reports great success of lower emissions with
> gasifier-type (whether TLUD or not is not an issue) stoves
> (for cooking and for heating) burning low-grade coal in
> Mongolia. That is documented evidence, and the concepts and
> designs did not come from copying the Chinese coal burning stoves.
>
> Less than 10 years ago (2007) there was a competition of clean
> cookstoves in China. Dana Charron and Berkeley folks helped
> run it. Many candidates. Of the seven or eight finalists,
> only one (Daxu) was a legitimate TLUD gasifier, and it won
> first place. So, I see no support for your statement:
>
> the modern Chinese stove community has specialized in TLUD
> type natural draft stoves for more than 20 years.
>
> Dean, you and anyone else are invited to present documentation
> about stove progress in China or in any country. But simple
> statements without backup documentation are not sufficient,
> and should not be coming from a person who is continually
> invited to represent the informal Stover Community to
> administrators and sources of funding. Your comments below
> only contribute to the myths that plague our work and our
> progress.
>
> Paul
>
> Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
> Email: psanders at ilstu.edu <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>
> Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
> <tel:%2B1-309-452-7072>
> Website: www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com>
>
> On 9/13/2015 12:45 AM, Dean Still wrote:
>
> Hi Paul and Ron,
>
> Let's not forget that the modern Chinese stove community
> has specialized in TLUD type natural draft stoves for more
> than 20 years. It's just as likely that the stove you
> ordered was designed in China and is now being sold
> worldwide. I think it is also sold by SilverFire?
>
> Hundreds of millions of natural draft coal burning TLUD
> type stoves are sold in China. Many manufacturers make
> biomass fueled forced air stoves like the Tom Reed stove
> but they are larger to match the big woks.
>
> It would be very interesting to learn about the Chinese
> history of top feed cylindrical combustion chamber with
> primary and secondary air stoves. The Chinese batch fed
> primary/secondary air stoves could be hundreds of years
> old. I don't know.
>
> Best,
>
> Dean
>
>
>
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>
>
>
> --
> Dean Still
> Executive Director
> Aprovecho Research Center
> PO Box 1175
> 76132 Blue Mountain School Road
> Cottage Grove, OR 97424
> (541) 767-0287 <tel:%28541%29%20767-0287>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Dean Still
> Executive Director
> Aprovecho Research Center
> PO Box 1175
> 76132 Blue Mountain School Road
> Cottage Grove, OR 97424
> (541) 767-0287
>
>
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