[Stoves] History of clean Chinese stove development. Re: Rights about stove designs Re: [biochar-stoves]

Paul Anderson psanders at ilstu.edu
Mon Sep 14 16:52:03 MDT 2015


Dean,

The photo did not come through.   Please send again.

I am continually  amazed by the Chinese stoves and programs.

Paul

Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
Skype: paultlud      Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:  www.drtlud.com

On 9/13/2015 5:51 PM, Dean Still wrote:
>
>
> Hi Paul,
>
> Did the photo come through?
>
> The honeycomb coal briquettes can be lit with an electric device that 
> quickly sets fire
> to the many interior vertical tunnels. When lit in this way the gases 
> made below all pass up
> into the burning tunnels in the top most briquette which promotes 
> cleaner combustion.
>
> When the top briquette is not lit before being placed on top of the 
> lower briquettes there is a lot of smoke.
>
> Millions of these stoves are in use in China. The government is trying 
> to switch to natural gas especially because
> coal burning produces carcinogens.
>
> These stoves remind me of TLUDs because they are batch loaded, the 
> fire is burning on top of the vertically loaded fuel,
> and gases pass up into the burning tunnels.
>
> The primary air enters from below and the secondary air passes up in 
> gaps between the briquettes and the walls of the stove.
> Adding more secondary air helped to more completely burn up the CO.
>
> Best,
>
> Dean
>
> On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 1:00 PM, Dean Still <deankstill at gmail.com 
> <mailto:deankstill at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Hi Paul,
>
>     Here's a Chinese Tom Reed type forced air stove with primary and
>     secondary air.
>
>     Xunda makes great stoves and has been at the GACC forums, etc.
>
>     We have seen many Chinese batch fed natural draft and forced air
>     stoves and I think that Crispin and Ron have gone to stove expos
>     in China?
>
>     https://exportpages.com/en/product/biomass-stove/129608/
>
>     The TLUD is a great idea and it reinforces how useful it is, if it
>     was made in lots of places.
>
>      The insulated Rocket stove was already in Nepal and Tibet and
>     hayboxes!
>
>      I hope to hear from someone in China about the history of cooking
>     stoves.
>
>     I went to a museum in Ningbo that had a big map on the wall
>     showing the 2,000 year history of stove export by sea from China
>     to India and Africa.
>
>     I wonder what kind of stoves were developed over such a long
>     period of time?
>
>     Best,
>
>     Dean
>
>
>
>
>
>     On Sun, Sep 13, 2015 at 10:05 AM, Paul Anderson
>     <psanders at ilstu.edu <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>> wrote:
>
>         Dean and all,                           (To post at
>         www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com> , but all replies via
>         the Listservs, please.)
>
>         It is remarkable how the documentation of the development of
>         clean-burning stoves in China is so scarce.   If you can
>         influence anyone to actually substantiate what you have
>         written in your email below and put it into English, that
>         would be a great service.
>
>         Instead, the evidence that comes from China today is that the
>         air pollution from the coal burning stoves is horrible and
>         that they are wanting solutions.   And I doubt that the
>         principles of TLUD-type combustion are being used with those
>         hundreds of millions of stoves that you mention.
>
>         Crispin reports great success of lower emissions with
>         gasifier-type (whether TLUD or not is not an issue) stoves
>         (for cooking and for heating) burning low-grade coal  in
>         Mongolia.  That is documented evidence, and the concepts and
>         designs did not come from copying the Chinese coal burning stoves.
>
>         Less than 10 years ago (2007) there was a competition of clean
>         cookstoves in China.  Dana Charron and Berkeley folks helped
>         run it.   Many candidates.  Of the seven or eight finalists,
>         only one (Daxu) was a legitimate TLUD gasifier, and it won
>         first place.  So, I see no support for your statement:
>
>             the modern Chinese stove community has specialized in TLUD
>             type natural draft stoves for more than 20 years.
>
>         Dean, you and anyone else are invited to present documentation
>         about stove progress in China or in any country.   But simple
>         statements without backup documentation are not sufficient,
>         and should not be coming from a person who is continually
>         invited to represent the informal Stover Community to
>         administrators and sources of funding.   Your comments below
>         only contribute to the myths that plague our work and our
>         progress.
>
>         Paul
>
>         Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
>         Email: psanders at ilstu.edu <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>
>         Skype: paultlud      Phone: +1-309-452-7072
>         <tel:%2B1-309-452-7072>
>         Website: www.drtlud.com <http://www.drtlud.com>
>
>         On 9/13/2015 12:45 AM, Dean Still wrote:
>
>             Hi Paul and Ron,
>
>             Let's not forget that the modern Chinese stove community
>             has specialized in TLUD type natural draft stoves for more
>             than 20 years. It's just as likely that the stove you
>             ordered was designed in China and is now being sold
>             worldwide. I think it is also sold by SilverFire?
>
>             Hundreds of millions of natural draft coal burning TLUD
>             type stoves are sold in China. Many manufacturers make
>             biomass fueled forced air stoves like the Tom Reed stove
>             but they are larger to match the big woks.
>
>             It would be very interesting to learn about the Chinese
>             history of top feed cylindrical combustion chamber with
>             primary and secondary air stoves.  The Chinese batch fed
>             primary/secondary air stoves could be hundreds of years
>             old. I don't know.
>
>             Best,
>
>             Dean
>
>
>
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>
>
>
>     -- 
>     Dean Still
>     Executive Director
>     Aprovecho Research Center
>     PO Box 1175
>     76132 Blue Mountain School Road
>     Cottage Grove, OR 97424
>     (541) 767-0287 <tel:%28541%29%20767-0287>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Dean Still
> Executive Director
> Aprovecho Research Center
> PO Box 1175
> 76132 Blue Mountain School Road
> Cottage Grove, OR 97424
> (541) 767-0287
>
>
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