[Stoves] Selecting stoves based on data... was Re: kgharris stove test

[Traveller]

Permit me to introduce myself - this is Nikhil Desai in Washington, DC area.

I used to subscribe to this list some 20 years ago, then dropped off and
have been reading some material for over a week now.

My questions below are primarily addressed to Crispin Pemberton-Pigott, but
the thread seems to have started with Paul Anderson or Kirk Harris, and I
am using the latest post below by Paul as reference rather than the whole
trail, since my question is quite general for the thread and also for other
posts I have read. It's just that the word "performance" seems to be most
heavily used by Crispin. I am seeking enlightenment, or at least some
clarity, and would appreciate any guru's help.

---------
Crispin:

I see the term "performance" in your discussions. Pray tell, what is meant
by "performance" and who has defined it, how?

I see the phrase "heat transfer efficiency". Is that synonymous with
"performance", i.e., is the technical discussion about methods of measuring
heat transfer efficiency so a "performance standard" can be set - by
somebody, for some purpose I do not quite understand yet (and would
learning about)?

But if so - i.e., "heat transfer efficiency standard" is the sole
"performance standard" - it begs the question what the purpose of a stove
is, and who decides.

No? Pardon me, I learned about "performance standard" in the context of
USEPA's work on "New Source Performance Standards" (NSPS) for power plant
and industrial boilers. These are large staionary devices, often (but not
necessarily) for continuous use, with a variety of coals, gases and liquids
as fuels, and USEPA's remit was to develop pollutant emission standards in
terms of daily averages.

These boilers have a purpose - to deliver a service - steam. A boiler
designer would take into consideration what fuels - down to range of
chemical and physical characteristics, which in many cases meant further
down to specific source or region for coals - to allow, what operating
practices to allow (startup, shutdown, variable power) in order to meet the
desired service (pressure and volume or flow rate of steam).

I am not an engineer, and age may have rusted my memory, but I hope you get
the idea, namely, a device is designed not just to meet an emission
standard in the abstract but how that standard, in combination with the
requirements of fuel type and quality and operating needs yields an
economically efficient boiler design for the required steam.

Of course, the planned economic efficiency may not be realized if fuel
costs change and steam requirements change, but design parameters have to
incorporate them ex ante.

What is the parallel in household biomass stoves? They are small devices
with variable and short-duration use, variety of woods or other biomass,
not to ignore quantity and type of foods, etc.

A household biomass stove does not just boil water, and certainly not
continuously. (I think even tea samovars run only from morning to evening.
Not sure.)

So who is in charge of "fixing" the fuel type and source, and more
importantly, who fixes the operating practice and the service requirement?

Can service requirements be fixed? In case of large boilers, the
owner/operator of each unit decides - with the help of an
architect/engineer and fuel/electricity market consultants - the service
requirements?

The so-called "traditional" stoves - "three stone" or built-in or portable
- for wood and charcoal were at least "designed" for specific fuel
type/source. I remember this from childhood in Indian villages. The "three
stone" stove is not as versatile as one might think. Cooks used, or
preferred to use, different woodstoves depending on the cost and
availability of different types of biomass, which varied seasonally.

Hence the question - what is "performance"? How do stove designers take
into account not just technical efficiency or emission rates - I suppose
instantaneous measurements with an average of multi-hour profile (please
enlighten me) - for which the user may have as little concern as a utility
does with boiler design, but "service requirements"? What are the "service
standards", so to speak?

I have been curious about this but was afraid the matter was too technical
for me to understand. This post was prompted by a recent SEI piece (7 June
2016) - CLEARING THE SMOKE
<https://stockholmenvironmentinstitute.exposure.co/clearing-the-smoke>: How
does behaviour affect choice of cookstoves? A story from Lusaka, Zambiaa- where
the authors assert "One thing that’s clear is that bringing about changes
in behaviour can be difficult, especially in areas like cooking that have
such deep cultural roots. "

I am not of the school that believes "old culture is destiny", but then old
cultures are built on the geography and economy of poor people, which vary
place to place.

Which reminds me, the USEPA search for NSPS (originally set in 1971
amendments to the Clean Air Act) had to also take into account the
technical and economic feasibility of these, which in turn varied by region
because i) the extent of air quality "problem" (daily ambient air patterns
over a 40-year period, say) varied by geography, ii) fuel costs - and as
importantly, relative costs - varied, and iii) control technologies varied
in maturity and market maturity (reliability, competition).

To draw parallel with household cookstoves, won't "performance standards"
have to take into account specific market conditions and air qualities in
particular geographies over 10-20 years (whatever it takes for the stove
stock to roll over completely) and competition from alternatives for
pollution control or avoidance?

In the case of US large boilers, there was air basin modeling and
forecasting exercise for many areas. Some areas did not reach "compliance"
with National Ambient Air Quality Standards (NAAQS) even with boiler NSPS,
shutting down some existing boilers, new boilers in locations remote from
dense cities, migration to suburbs, for several years or decades and the
state-level environmental agencies had to negotiate "State Implementation
Plans" (SIPs) where additional measures were established - e.g., traffic
control (in combination with Federal standards for vehicle fuel economy),
control of new wood heaters. Some implementation difficulties were
addressed by the so-called "Acid Rain" amendments in 1990 which had another
objective - control of long-range transport of pollutants.

That is, even "service standards" - to please the customer - are not enough
when there is a public policy goal - ambient air quality over the long
term, and control of long-range transport.

It seems the technical literature on household cooking and health has a
very narrow and static view of the world - no allowance for variations in
fuel quality, operating practices, service requirements, ambient air
quality, or long-range transport. That may not be a problem for some
calculations but when it comes to implementing behavioral change, all those
variations should be considered, no?

Thanks and regards,


Nikhil










Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2016 08:42:34 -0500
From: Paul Anderson <psanders at ilstu.edu>
To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
        <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Subject: [Stoves] Selecting stoves based on data... was Re: kgharris
        stove test
Message-ID: <06b4c635-46aa-4d79-be3b-f57ec84b3c13 at ilstu.edu>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"; Format="flowed"

Crispin, Kirk and all,

Subject Line changed to reflect the change in the Subject.  This is NOT
about Kirk's stove, but about DATA about stoves being used for stove
selection.

Crispin's message (below) raises TOO MANY questions about the SPECIFICS
OF stove test data.  Instead, this message/topic is about what is
actually done when selecting stoves that would be put into the market in
a project.   It is not about the household or cook selecting a stove
from the several choices in the market or project.   It is about project
leaders and scientists examining stove characteristics when making
selections.

My contention is that the numbers (data) do not matter all that much.
There are simply too many variables, so "perceptual averages" (or
generalities) come into the process.  One example is from (IMO = in my
opinion) one of the best selection efforts that use data, the large
project in Indonesia.  It created a 3-star qualitative system to examine
(I believe) 3 major characteristics (like emissions,
efficiency......).   Really great implementation of a rating system
linked to financial assistance for stove purchases. [[[ The much
discussed Tier 0-to-4 system has not been used in a similar way, as far
as I know, even though there is a stove database that gathers such data. ]]]

But even with those stars, in the end the factors of cost and
attractiveness and convience of use and fuel issues can simply overwhelm
the "data" approach.

So I say (mainly to Crispin, but to all), the three numbers for
fire-power can be used as indicators, if used at all.   The "devil in
the details" (such as moisture content of the fuel, and including or
excluding time and fuel during ignition time, etc.) simply blow away the
data themselves.  In other words, even with all of the fullest
calculations possible, words such as "6 kW firepower" simply mean that
this combustion arrangement "can really put out some heat."   From that
generality, stove designers work with pot placement, skirts, plancha vs
direct flame to pot, size changes, etc etc etc.

For some readers (and project leaders, etc.), this message is terrible
because it diminishes the importance of data (and some related
employment and budgets).   Others see it as "that's what I do."   Others
say "so what?  Not interested.  Already have too much invested in my
stove and factory, so I ignore the data evaluations."

For stove INNOVATORS like Kirk Harris who are making experimental units,
getting test results are extremely important to fine-tune the
improvements so that we do (and should) pay attention to new developments.

But in the end, the data do not mean acceptance or rejection of a
manufactured line of stoves.  Marketing overwhelms stove science. So do
cost and conveinece, etc.

Paul

Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
Skype:   paultlud    Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:  www.drtlud.com

>   b
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