[Stoves] Off-topic: Pictures and perceptions - GACC at Imperial Hotel, New Delhi

Traveller miata98 at gmail.com
Tue Nov 1 02:04:17 CDT 2016


Dear Ron:

I didn't mean a general attack on GACC, just a criticism of what I perceive
as excesses or errors. My responses between ** below.

On Tue, Nov 1, 2016 at 1:10 AM, Ronal W. Larson <rongretlarson at comcast.net>
wrote:

> Nikhil,  cc list
>
> I write this to be supportive of GACC.  See below.
>
> On Oct 31, 2016, at 2:40 PM, Traveller <miata98 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> It is really an neo-imperial enterprise, it seems.
>
> *RWL:  To me it seems like a great way to draw attention to both the need
> for and the availability of improved stoves.   I understand the
> word “imperial”, but “neo”?   (Aside - my computer changed your “neo”
> to “net”.  )*
>

** Ron: "Neo-imperialism" is a strain of political theory developed in the
1960s and 1970s as to how former imperial powers were now  using
instruments of trade policy and military alliances to the harm of poor
countries or their governments. I used that term because Mrs Clinton
advanced the doctrine that America's foreign relations will cover 3 Ds -
Defense, Diplomacy, and Development. From a poor country's view, a rich
countriy's "development" project has ulterior motives, sometimes
acceptable, sometimes not.  **

> Because images influence perceptions. GACC is in the business of raising
> money and earning bonuses.
>
> *[RWL:  I think preconceptions influence “perceptions”    I believe the
> stove world is much better off with GACC - who is drawing attention to
> a problem some people just can’t see.   Obviously “raising money” - but I
> have seen no reference to “bonuses”;  your evidence of that?*
>
> ** Look up UN Foundation's IRS reports and draw inferences. The CEO
> compensation over three years was around $900k. But let's not get personal.
> I don't know what difference it makes to draw attention of Chef Jose
> Andres, or Leonardo DeCaprio or Oprah Winfrey. What is the problem that you
> see? Saving lives? Saving trees? Saving climate? Saving girls'; education
> prospects? Any evidence for that? **
>
> The image of three Indian women crouching in front of mostly European
> Whites says more than the earlier item at the White House.
>
> *[RWL:  It seems likely to me that this is a very normal way for women
> cooks to sit (not “crouch”) in front of their stoves.  I’ll have to
> research “earlier” - which I gather was disappointing to you.*
>

**  That criticism had originated in a private e-mail by another
correspondent who was aghast at the image. At the White House, Chef Andres
used stoves on tables. In Delhi picture, it doesn't look like the cooks
were cooking any meals for the audience. **

> This is poverty pornography. Just like those images of women cooking in
> dark, smokey places. While the queens of Chappaqua and Washington, DC seek
> to rule the cooking world of the poor.
>
> *[RWL:  Obviously, pornography is in the eye of the beholder.
> Personally,  I fail to understand how a photograph of a smokey kitchen is
> pornography.   I am beginning to understand your politics however - so
> thank you for further “Chappaqua” evidence of that.*
> * How about telling us how you would have handled this photo-op to draw
> appropriate attention to the need for stove improvements?*
>
> ** "Poverty pornography"is marketing pictures that make the charity-minded
part with their money. See Poverty Pornography
<http://www.abc.net.au/news/2010-10-12/new_document/39940>, ABC 12 June 16.
A lot of hyper-degreed experts go to poor families, do surveys, extract
information and take pictures that would make their careers by writing
papers, doing presentations, and marketing their books or raise funds using
those pictures. Oh, of course I have done some of it (until AusAID
practically prohibited taking pictures of any child.) **

> GACC said, “At a private demonstration held at Delhi’s Imperial Hotel, the
> chefs learned how sustained use of clean cookstoves and fuels can save
> lives, improve livelihoods, empower women, and protect the environment."
>
> *RWL:  Since you don’t comment on it - should we assume you do or do not
> object to the caption: ‘ **save lives, improve livelihoods, empower
> women, and protect the environment.”  ?*
> * My guess is that you couldn’t figure out a way to be negative.*
>
> ** Nyah. I just don't care to say that all the time. It's a claim without
> substance, and I don't like the research to create an "evidence baser"
> because the theories of change are so silly. "Protect the environment" -
> what does that mean? Or "empower women"/ To truly empower women, get them
> out of the kitchen, go cook in commercial food factories, restaurants. They
> will get paid for it, and can come home with purchased food herself. Or
> everybody can go out to eat. (Not really; I am being tendentious and
> silly.)
>
> Yeah. The Imperial Hotel is a great example itself - employs a lot of
> women, and has grown trees around.
>
> *RWL:   I fail to understand this - but am pretty sure it is meant to be
> derogatory to GACC.  You would have recommended holding this photo-op
> where?  You think stove list members equate “grown trees” with “protect the
> environment”?*
>
> **** Oh, perhaps. GACC can't see empowerment if they were confronted by
> it. The women employees of the Imperial are not home, in the kitchen six
> hours a day. Isn't that empowerment? They still, until recently, had to use
> twigs, dungcakes and kerosene for cooking. I think this photo op was a
> waste of money. **
>
If anybody happens to be in New Delhi, I suggest a lunch at the Imperial,
> probably around $15 plus tip per person, no alcohol. Roam around in the
> hotel and you will discover interesting historical titbits.
>
> *[RWL:  I guessed  this was a straight statement - until I discovered my
> computer had initially changed “titbits” to “tidbits”.  Now I am totally
> uncertain what your point is/was.*
>

** I miswrote. I meant tidbits. My eyes are failing me on this monitor. Or
my keyboard is acting up. My point simply was, go see the Imperial. I don't
think I have ever stayed there, just had meals 3-4 times. It is a very fine
hotel. **

>
> * In sum - you have continued to disappoint me.   You have an antipathy to
> GACC that simply baffles me.  It would be better for GACC to have never
> been formed?       Ron*
>
> ** I apologize, Ron.  GACC needs a new roadmap, with less propaganda and
> self-promotion, and learning that cooking is more than water boiling tests
> and computed concentrations and exposures that are going to be found in
> actual use. They have no regard for "contextual design and promotion", or
> what I may call "Vernacular Stoves".
>
>  I am not disappointed in GACC. I didn't pay any attention to it until
about a year ago. I have no antipathy to GACC per se, just some
questionable judgments in using people's money. If they had an annual
report and a financial report, one could understand what it is doing and
for what. From its website, I see silliness like "Number of death per year
from household air pollution - 13,200
<http://cleancookstoves.org/country-profiles/focus-countries/8-uganda.html>"
I know they are just citing the GBD nonsense. Attribution is not causality,
but let me not go off on yet another criticism of abuser of science.

I don't know what would have been better then GACC. I cannot think of
anything worse either. I don't expect much from it other than being a
fine-wine-dine-and-shine party for Mrs. Clinton and Mr. Guterres. UN
Foundation makes money on GACC. **


>
> Nikhil
>
>
>
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