[Stoves] Upside down fire. (not a stove per say) Re: Desktop research topic for someone....Re: Accidental TLUD technique discovery

Wed Nov 16 16:56:15 CST 2016

Dear all,

That is a very informative link.   Thank you Inglore!!

1.  I like the name "upside down fire".   Descriptive and not 
confusing.  Not trying to slip in the gasification terminlogy of TLUD.   
It is not intened to be a "gasifier."

2.  The postings seem to begin in 2009.  So this is not very 
"historical" and the writer had some earlier experience.

3.  I have tried such a fire in my home's fireplace, and I liked it.   
BUT this blog taught me some things:

A. *_Stack the large wood TIGHTLY. _* Try to NOT let the embers fall to 
the bottom.
B.  Also comments about crinkling the paper and about getting the whole 
fire started.

4.  For our STOVES Listserv, there is no mention of trying to do cooking 
or trying to assist impoverished people.   Nevertheless, this is still 
useful information and is appropriate for these discussions.

Repeating my earlier message, Anyone,

Please do some searching about what Crispin describes below.   And 
please share with the Stoves Listserv.

I hope that someone decides to really get into the topic of "upside down 
fires".

Paul

Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
Skype:   paultlud    Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:  www.drtlud.com

On 11/16/2016 4:24 PM, Ingelore Kahrens wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I found some well-illustrated instructions. 
> http://fourhourworkweek.com/2009/02/02/how-to-build-an-upside-down-fire/
>
> I loved building fires when I was a girl scout - and still do today. 
> And I´ll try this method as soon as possible.
>
> Ingelore
>
>
> Am 16.11.2016 um 23:10 schrieb Paul Anderson:
>> Anyone,
>>
>> Please do some searching about what Crispin describes below. And 
>> please share with the Stoves Listserv.
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
>> Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
>> Skype:   paultlud    Phone: +1-309-452-7072
>> Website:  www.drtlud.com
>>
>> On 11/15/2016 11:17 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:
>>> Dear Neil
>>>
>>> When I was in Scouts we always made the main fires in the manner 
>>> described.
>>> I didn't see another method used so it must have been around for a 
>>> while.
>>>
>>> The oldest methods described for lighting a smokeless fire also 
>>> describe a
>>> top lit fire. This was a quasi-military thing as cooking without 
>>> smoke was
>>> important. It is in the books on "Indian" fire building methods 
>>> going back
>>> yonks.
>>>
>>> I was not aware that everyone as not aware this is how to do it.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Crispin
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On 
>>> Behalf Of
>>> neiltm at uwclub.net
>>> Sent: 16-Nov-16 05:40
>>> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves 
>>> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Accidental TLUD technique discovery
>>>
>>> Crispin, I'm amazed by your scouting campfire experience, it bears
>>> absolutely no relation to mine, where in both the troops I was in at
>>> different times the fires whether for cooking or the sing song camp 
>>> evening
>>> fire were completely conventional bottom lit, the latter sometimes in a
>>> tepee construction.  What you are describing, but probably on a larger
>>> scale, seems to be what Paal Wendelbo described and that inspired 
>>> him.  It
>>> might be interesting to try to discover if old scouting literature 
>>> describes
>>> making fires this way.  Our cooking was in large oval cast iron 
>>> 'dixies'
>>> placed on top of sticks aligned in the direction of the wind 
>>> hopefully.  The
>>> most sophisticated thing we did was to roast large joints of pork, from
>>> breakfast time to be ready at lunch time where a roasting tin with 
>>> the joint
>>> was placed on a bed of embers, a galvanised bath tub inverted over 
>>> the whole
>>> and sealed with ash and a fire from a separate pit brought over and 
>>> placed
>>> around the windward side and on top.
>>>   Guaging the degree of cooking was by removing a pole from the 
>>> corner of the
>>> cook house shelter, placing the metal tip on the top of the bathtub 
>>> and the
>>> wooden end in an ear!  After 4 years of observing and helping in this
>>> process you became sufficiently competent to take charge of it. We were
>>> allowed half an hour leeway to bring the pork to the table, pork 
>>> properly
>>> cooked was more important than punctuality!
>>>
>>> So was the TLUD/CD fire common knowledge in Britain/Europe?  I never 
>>> came
>>> across it in the late 50s and sixties, or since.  Our scoutmaster 
>>> was an ex
>>> navy man, perhaps if he had been army?  There's some unwritten 
>>> history here
>>> surely?
>>>
>>> But I came across this through the second hit on a search for 'scout 
>>> camp
>>> fire instructions':
>>>
>>> https://www.rei.com/learn/expert-advice/campfire-basics.html
>>>
>>> They call it the 'Upside down (pyramid)' (the fire being 'upside 
>>> down', not
>>> the pyramid!
>>>
>>> The girl guides also have it, but they don't really understand it, 
>>> unless
>>> yours had tinder at the bottom as well?:
>>>
>>> http://gscm.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/07-1137MasterOfTheCampfire.pdf 
>>>
>>>
>>> "You can use several types of fire styl
>>> es for a campfire. The PYRAMID starts
>>> with a bottom layer of 4-6 inch diameter logs. Add subsequent layers of
>>> smaller shorter logs. Fill the center with tinder and kindling and 
>>> light the
>>> fire on a small platform of sticks near the top. As it burns, the 
>>> coals fall
>>> in to the middle, helping the fire burn downward."
>>>
>>> wikihow.com don't know it
>>>
>>> http://scoutingmagazine.org/2016/02/how-to-build-the-best-campfire/
>>>
>>> don't list it
>>>
>>> It seems patchy, but I'm wondering if it simply became largely 
>>> forgotten in
>>> my day and has been revived a bit in more recent times?  It always 
>>> amazes me
>>> what my parents generation didn't seem to know.
>>>
>>> Best wishes,   Neil Taylor
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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