[Stoves] Charcoal markets and prices (Re: Anand Karve, Ken, Teddy, Crispin)

Fri Oct 7 00:50:06 CDT 2016

Moderator: I changed the subject line. It's not just about stoves and home
cooking. Selected posts below.
-------------

Dr Karve mentions water in wood charcoal in Indian markets. Could it be in
part to control dust? I assume there is no risk of self-ignition with wood
charcoal.

***

Ken Boak mentions bulk price of $550-650/t in Europe. I think the US bulk
price to retail stores is around $750/t (hundreds of tons delivered to the
store in a container of 7 kg bags; inventory and handling cost, plus 100%
margin bring final customer retail to around $2/kg). Which probably implies
ex-kiln bulk cost that is about the same as in Europe, adjusted for VAT and
differences in employment taxes.

I have been trying to get rough idea of wood production costs around the
world. Any idea at all? There must be more to "better stoves" than free
biomass, no?

With saw dust and other wastes, the feedstock price is probably negative,
i.e., the waste producer probably pays to haul away the waste. Is that the
case?

****

Dr Karve and Teddy: I wonder if batteries are competitive with charcoal for
small vehicle transport or water spraying. What's the point of charcoal
gasifier?

****

Crispin: Can you please explain why EU should dictate yield to >35% on dry
mass basis and what definition it uses for "the source" and for it to be
"sustainable"? Is this a part of some international wood products industry
agreement or yet another restrictive trade practice against developing
countries - like CAP - so that EU internal suppliers of charcoal from
wastes and/or EU importers of charcoal blessed by "Voluntary Carbon"
experts (a cartel?) can maintain higher prices? (Considering what US
charcoal demand is supposedly driving in Central America, I won't object;
just curious.)

I didn't get your other post (Message 9) because it might have been an html
text.

Nikhil

>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2016 11:32:28 +0530
> From: Anand Karve <adkarve at gmail.com>
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>         <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] SPAM: Re: Charcoal from waste - home cooking or
>         other markets? (Re: Crispin, Anand Karve)
> Message-ID:
>         <CACPy7Sd2fx6v2O7=eKi_LF9sLOVN_JD3T-guzvL82MSmM7csRA at mail.
> gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Dear Tom,
> people who make charcoal in mud kilns, generally use wood as the raw
> material. Our kiln, made of mild steel sheets, does not cost all that much,
> and it can convert agricultural waste, leaf litter from avenues and
> forests, nut shells, and even cardboard into charcoal. The char is powdery
> and therefore it has to be briquetted (spending additional money) before it
> can be used as fuel. The wood charcoal vendors generally wet their charcoal
> in order to increase its weight. Owing to this, and also because of the
> unscientific manner in which the charcoal is produced, it produces smoke
> while burning. Although our briquettes are 20% costlier than the
> commercially available wood charcoal, our customers prefer to buy them,
> because our briquettes do not have any water added to them and because they
> burn absolutely without any smoke.
> Yours
> A.D.Karve
>
> ***
> Dr. A.D. Karve
>
> Chairman, Samuchit Enviro Tech Pvt Ltd (www.samuchit.com)
>
> Trustee & Founder President, Appropriate Rural Technology Institute (ARTI)
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2016 08:50:22 +0100
> From: Ken Boak <ken.boak at gmail.com>
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>         <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] SPAM: Re: Charcoal from waste - home cooking or
>         other markets? (Re: Crispin, Anand Karve)
> Message-ID:
>         <CAOqQ0iYk=aFQQtZQi_2vAJ0GXm6Cat_-qQBqO-mpjQhQt_E-yw at mail.
> gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Tom, Anand, & stoves list
>
> Regarding charcoal in general
>
> There appears to be a lot of activity in commercial production of a
> recently introduced form of charcoal briquettes, especially in the Ukraine,
> with aims of supplying Europe with a high quality "Pini & Kay" extruded
> charcoal briquette.
>
> These are now being offered from several suppliers in the UK, as a
> non-charcoal version under the generic name of "heat logs".  They are made
> from high pressure extrusion of sawdust and other wood chip wastes.
>
> They are between 50 and 90mm across - often with a central hole, and
> between 200 and 300mm long.
>
> There are several companies creating these briquettes from sustainable or
> recycled wood waste and then converting them to charcoal in large kilns.
>
> The kilns are designed to recuperate the volatiles driven off by pyrolysis
> thus making a much cleaner, low emission charcoal production - which is
> often seen as a major polluter and source of de-forestation.
>
> Here's one such company in the Ukraine
>
> http://ecodgy.com/proisvodstvo.htm
>
> The charcoal product has about a 35 to 38% mass of the original dry
> biomass, low ash and high carbon content - approaching 90%.  It sells in
> western Europe and US for an eye-watering $550 - $650 per tonne!
>
> Whilst this is a "high-tech" product requiring investment in an extruder
> ($3500) and kiln, I am sure that a more appropriate solution could be
> applied to village scale production of charcoal briquettes from agri-waste
> using a low tech shredder,  hand press and simple kiln.
>
> Crispin's "Holey" briquettes - made with a simple press, from a wide
> variety of biomass and agri-waste would possibly be  a good choice for
> converting to charcoal.
>
> Alternatively the Karve's method of converting agri-waste to charcoal in
> low cost kilns and running the charcoal powder plus binding agent through a
> simple extruder  would make a product that would run a charcoal gasifier
> and engine - for electrical and mechanical power production.
>
>
>
> Ken

> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2016 10:51:49 +0300
> From: Cookswell Jikos <cookswelljikos at gmail.com>
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>         <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] SPAM: Re: Charcoal from waste - home cooking or
>         other markets? (Re: Crispin, Anand Karve)
> Message-ID:
>         <CAA-40H+=HQM9m-R_wVwDSF-KufoijZpLAzibsfVRqa+=_BgWDw at mail.
> gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi Tom -
>
> Have you chance ever heard of these guys -
> https://www.facebook.com/phapanggasifier/?hc_ref=PAGES_TIMELINE
>
> They make amazing looking (and working) charcoal gas powered motorbikes,
> water pumps pickups etc.
>
> Also speaking of charcoal from waste - there are a few interesting projects
> in Kenya doing this right now, some with human waste, some with agri-waste
> like pineapple leaves, rose roots, macadamia nut shells etc - when I last
> met the pineapple briquette maker he told me they had a very big industrial
> market for the charcoal. Many industrial steam boilers in Kenya run on
> briquettes as they are much more reliable than electricity. He also said
> they were hoping to start selling them for co-firing clinker at the cement
> factories next year.
>
> Ken thanks for that link - these are such cool things all around!
>
> Teddy
>
>
>
>
>
> *Cookswell Jikos*
> www.cookswell.co.ke
> www.facebook.com/CookswellJikos
> www.kenyacharcoal.blogspot.com
> Mobile: +254 700 380 009
> Mobile: +254 700 905 913
> P.O. Box 1433, Nairobi 00606, Kenya
>
> Save trees - think twice before printing.
> --------------------------------
>
> Message: 8
> Date: Thu, 6 Oct 2016 09:59:28 -0400
> From: Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <crispinpigott at outlook.com>
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves
>         <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Charcoal from waste - home cooking or other
>         markets? (Re: Crispin, Anand Karve)
> Message-ID: <COL402-EAS152B45ABAA573E7F35A3803B1C70 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Interesting details, Ken and All
>
> Something to keep in mind re the developing of the EU market for these
> products: I understand from a Senegalese supplier of charred 'tiffa'
> (bullrush) logs is that there is an EU certification required before
> importing is allowed. The two criteria I recall are that the yield has to
> be >35% on a dry mass basis and the source has to be sustainable.
>
> To meet the 35% target requires leaving a fair % of volatiles in? the
> product. With greater control the target is easier to achieve while keeping
> the carbon content up.
>
> There is a very large, long term market for this type of sustainable
> biomass? energy carrier.
>
> Crispin
>
> ------------------------------
>
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