[Stoves] Rapid mixing
Paul Anderson
psanders at ilstu.edu
Thu Sep 29 11:10:00 CDT 2016
Alex,
As stated, your video of the blue flame is created with woodgas
(pyrolytic gases) created in a TLUD. Clearly something very distinctive
is happening. Answering the unanswered questions will be wonderful.
The other approach is to have other people (independent parties)
replicate what you have accomplished. Please help make that happen.
You can select the people (such as Julien and Crispin and Kirk H. and
others), or provide instructions to everyone and then we see who can do
the replication.
For those who do not know Alex and his exceptional credentials as a very
early TLUD Pyroneer (1990's), see the History of Micro-gasification at
my website: www.drtlud.com
Paul
Doc / Dr TLUD / Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: psanders at ilstu.edu
Skype: paultlud Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website: www.drtlud.com
On 9/29/2016 9:23 AM, alex english wrote:
>
> No, but it is produced with a pyrolysis front at a temperature (500c
> ish) at the low end of normal for a TLUDs filled with wood pellets.
> There are some unanswered ( or demonstrated) questions here. To match
> burn rate with a higher py-fr-tp I need to use a smaller fuel chamber
> and increase the superficial velocity. This will perhaps produce a
> different gas composition. We'll see...
>
> Alex
>
>
> On Sep 29, 2016 9:00 AM, "Crispin Pemberton-Pigott"
> <crispinpigott at outlook.com <mailto:crispinpigott at outlook.com>> wrote:
>
> Dear Alex
>
> is that flame produced late in the pyrolysis? By that I means in
> a carbon 'evaporating' stage.
>
> Thanks
> Crispin
>
>
> Kirk,
> Its quite wonderful what you have demonstrated. A holy grail of
> sorts. The durability and complexity, and ultimately this is the
> cost, of the structure you have placed in the flame/gas path will
> determine its future usefulness. Interesting solution none the less.
>
> Here is a recent video of my premixed blue tlud-gas flame. Its all
> geometry, no obstruction.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnV1e60NTss&feature=youtu.be
> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jnV1e60NTss&feature=youtu.be>
>
> Alex
>
> On Wed, Sep 28, 2016 at 12:05 PM, kgharris <kgharris at sonic.net
> <mailto:kgharris at sonic.net>> wrote:
>
> Crispin and All,
> Some clarification: By radial mixing I assume you mean
> the method in the lower photo where the air travels inward,
> radially. By helical mixing I assume you mean swirling
> gasses by using fan blades like in the top photo. Neither of
> these represents a conclusion on my part. Your opening
> sentence put me on guard immediately because it defines your
> techniques as my conclusion. A more accurate starting sentence
> for your response would have been 'Here are two techniques to
> look at that have worked for me'. My thinking is not limited
> to these two ideas.
> Your techniques are what I was looking for, ideas for rapid
> mixing.
> Kirk H.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
> *To:* 'Discussion of biomass cooking stoves'
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 27, 2016 8:09 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [Stoves] Rapid mixing
>
> Dear Kirk
>
> I think your conclusion is correct – that you can shorted
> the height of the combustion zone with radial or helical
> mixing.
>
> I provide two photos with this in mind, though
> accomplished in completely different ways. The first is
> (for a wood burner, not pellets) is to put the mixed below
> the fuel, to continuously create a series of ‘induced
> vortices’ a few of which pass through the fuel and provide
> mixing by spinning. A vortex tends to perpetuate itself so
> all that is needed is to get a few going all the time.
>
> The material is a low chrome stainless steel. The
> production is in three stages: blanking, punching the
> cuts, then forming.
>
> The second method of shortening the flame is to use the
> secondary air entering the fire as a method of driving the
> flames horizontally. This should be done in a ‘divided’
> manner, not a ring of air, so that it breaks up the rising
> gases into manageable jets. This kind of short clean burn
> can only be done with preheated secondary air – 300-500˚C
> works well.
>
> The fire above is burning pellet gas (as a TLUD) though it
> also works for wood if the gas generation is consistent.
> Consistency requires very good air control. The amount of
> is required to achieve this is so low that it pretty much
> rules out having an open bottom with fuel sticking out.
>
> Readers may recall Julien in Coburg combined the injection
> of air and placement of the air feed in the gas stream. A
> problem commonly reported with that approach is the
> cooling of the metal by the air can interfere with the
> combustion.
>
> Readers may also recall Dr Nurhuda in Indonesia achieved a
> downward turning flame consistently in his recent stoves
> reducing the flame height basically to zero. All of these
> approaches can assist the provision of lower height stoves
> – a major challenge for typical Indian rural households
> where cooks won’t compromise on the cooking height.
>
> Everyone should try these approaches and report what works
> well.
>
> Regards
>
> Crispin
>
> ……
>
> Not to be distracted from the purpose of this list, I have
> a thought about wood stoves. A small natural draft wood
> burning cook stove that mixes the wood gas with secondary
> air in 2 cm has a considerable advantage over a stove that
> may take 20 cm or more. It's a little like transistors,
> which gave advantage over vacuum tubes in electronics.
> Rapid mixing can enable a small wood stove to burn quick
> and clean at both *_high and low_* power levels. Witness
> the excellent numbers for the Wonderwerk TLUD-ND stove
> which uses a rapid Venturi mixing technique. Combined
> with the user friendly power level controls, the
> principles used in the Wonderwerk stove hold considerable
> potential. Rapid mixing seems to me to be a very good
> area for research. I wonder how many rapid mixing
> techniques will be found over the next few years? I
> intend to contribute.
>
> List, keep writing about wood stoves, don't be distracted.
>
> Kirk H.
>
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