[Stoves] Thai Bucket Stove

Paul Anderson psanders at ilstu.edu
Tue Dec 5 10:15:23 MST 2017


Tom,

There was a clear transition going on at the final PCIA Forum that was 
held in Lima Peru in 2011, during the overlap of the two timeframes.

Paul

Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
Skype:   paultlud    Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:  www.drtlud.com

On 12/5/2017 11:09 AM, Tom Miles wrote:
>
> Thanks. That’s the time frame I remember.
>
> I’m looking forward to ETHOS in January.
>
> Tom
>
> *From:* Derby, Elisa [mailto:ederby at winrock.org]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 05, 2017 8:53 AM
> *To:* Tom Miles <tmiles at trmiles.com>; ndesai at alum.mit.edu; 'Ronal W. 
> Larson' <rongretlarson at comcast.net>
> *Cc:* 'Crispin Pemberton-Pigott' <crispinpigott at outlook.com>; 
> 'Discussion of biomass' <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>; 'Paul 
> Anderson' <psanders at ilstu.edu>
> *Subject:* RE: [Stoves] Thai Bucket Stove
>
> Hi Tom,
>
> PCIA was 2003-2012.  The Alliance was launched in 2010.
>
> Best,
>
> Elisa
>
> *From:* Tom Miles [mailto:tmiles at trmiles.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, December 4, 2017 9:42 PM
> *To:* Derby, Elisa <ederby at winrock.org <mailto:ederby at winrock.org>>; 
> ndesai at alum.mit.edu <mailto:ndesai at alum.mit.edu>; 'Ronal W. Larson' 
> <rongretlarson at comcast.net <mailto:rongretlarson at comcast.net>>
> *Cc:* 'Crispin Pemberton-Pigott' <crispinpigott at outlook.com 
> <mailto:crispinpigott at outlook.com>>; 'Discussion of biomass' 
> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org 
> <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>>; 'Paul Anderson' 
> <psanders at ilstu.edu <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>>
> *Subject:* RE: [Stoves] Thai Bucket Stove
>
> Elisa,
>
> When did PCIA start and end and when did GACC start?
>
> Thanks
>
> Tom
>
> *From:* Derby, Elisa [mailto:ederby at winrock.org]
> *Sent:* Monday, December 04, 2017 6:06 PM
> *To:* ndesai at alum.mit.edu <mailto:ndesai at alum.mit.edu>; Ronal W. 
> Larson <rongretlarson at comcast.net <mailto:rongretlarson at comcast.net>>
> *Cc:* Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <crispinpigott at outlook.com 
> <mailto:crispinpigott at outlook.com>>; Tom Miles <tmiles at trmiles.com 
> <mailto:tmiles at trmiles.com>>; Discussion of biomass 
> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org 
> <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>>; Paul Anderson 
> <psanders at ilstu.edu <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>>
> *Subject:* RE: [Stoves] Thai Bucket Stove
>
> Hmmm, I wasn’t involved in this and the person who might know the 
> background (and have a copy) is on vacation this week—I’ll check on 
> this next week. This does not look like a final published report to 
> me—it would have different branding/marking, and would reference the 
> agreement number (which would also help me locate where it came from), 
> and it would also be publicly accessible on USAID’s Development 
> Clearing House. Who/what is scribd.com?
>
> Here’s the full consumer research link: 
> http://designlab360.org/washpluscookstovetoolkit/
>
> (Developed under the USAID-funded WASHplus project on which Winrock 
> was a sub to FHI360)
>
> Best,
>
> Elisa
>
> *From:* Nikhil Desai [mailto:pienergy2008 at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Monday, December 4, 2017 6:25 PM
> *To:* Ronal W. Larson <rongretlarson at comcast.net 
> <mailto:rongretlarson at comcast.net>>
> *Cc:* Crispin Pemberton-Pigott <crispinpigott at outlook.com 
> <mailto:crispinpigott at outlook.com>>; Tom Miles <tmiles at trmiles.com 
> <mailto:tmiles at trmiles.com>>; Discussion of biomass 
> <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org 
> <mailto:stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>>; Paul Anderson 
> <psanders at ilstu.edu <mailto:psanders at ilstu.edu>>; Derby, Elisa 
> <ederby at winrock.org <mailto:ederby at winrock.org>>
> *Subject:* Re: [Stoves] Thai Bucket Stove
>
> Ron:
>
> I am cc'ing Elisa Derby if she can track down a pdf of the Rwanda 
> document on the web or distribute it to us. I couldn't find it on 
> USAID or Winrock website. It is indeed a good report, from around the 
> time I last went to Rwanda and was hounded out.
>
>
> I wonder where the GEF report got the number 9 kg wood per kg of 
> charcoal. Might have been me from some hearsay; don't take it 
> seriously and don't worry about the gorillas. Rwanda government is 
> making enough money from gorilla tourism and poverty tourism to 
> protect the forests.
>
> Until Robert van der Plas did a biomass energy strategy (BEST) report 
> circa 2006 for EUEI, I had no information on what was going on in 
> charcoal-making. There was a factory on the then-outskirts of Kigali 
> whose charcoal use was banned, otherwise wood use in tea factories 
> faced no problem of supply.
>
> If I remember correctly, Robert's report to the World Bank in 2004 
> (which apparently didn't get to GEF) took the view that charcoal was 
> sustainably supplied from private trees. Waste from forest cutting 
> during the non-genocide killings of 1994 might have had lower 
> efficiency of charcoaling, and no doubt land clearance for agriculture 
> and infrastructure, real estate also played some part in forest loss.
>
> Charcoal is not a depleting resource. Period. What makes people grow 
> trees for charcoal should have been reported on by Robert's paper with 
> Doug Barnes, Keith Openshaw and Kirk Smith after their 1994 paper, but 
> evidently they did not care about sustainable growth of biomass.
>
>
> I was glad to see that unlike secretive operations like UNF, Winrock 
> publishes a detailed annual report 
> <https://www.winrock.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/20171024-WI-Annual-Report-2016.pdf>. 
> As expected, Winrock is basically a USAID contractor. I don't know how 
> much of Winrock stoves work is funded by USAID vs. USEPA. In recent 
> activities, it is USEPA behind cookstove design 
> <https://www.winrock.org/project/improving-cookstove-design-around-the-world/> whereas 
> USAID behind consumer research on cooking 
> <https://www.winrock.org/project/advancing-clean-cooking-through-consumer-research/>, 
> cookstove distribution 
> <https://www.winrock.org/document/advanced-biomass-cookstove-distribution/>, 
> and use <http://www.ghspjournal.org/content/ghsp/2/3/268.full.pdf>. 
> You might like the September 2017 report on distribution.
>
> Crispin is evidently wrong that USAID stopped doing stoves work. It 
> seems USAID just doesn't bother with EPA/WHO rigmarole.
>
> Nikhil
>
> On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 3:50 PM, Ronal W. Larson 
> <rongretlarson at comcast.net <mailto:rongretlarson at comcast.net>> wrote:
>
>     Nikhil et al:  (Adding Paul)
>
>     1.  Looks like a good report. I wish I had time to do more than
>     skim.  Winrock has a long history with stoves.  We are very
>     fortunate that they remain involved with GACC and EPA.
>
>     2.  The most interesting paragraph for me was this at the
>     beginning (p25) of Annex 1, noting the factor of 9 (*_nine!_*) in
>     the efficient use of a diminishing resource. (Sorry that I had to
>     use a screen shot, as the publishers prohibited a simple copy)
>
>     3.  The charcoal stoves are reported to have an efficiency of
>     about 1/3.  But (including the energy density differences of 18
>     and 30 MJ/kg), the real efficiency expressed by this factor of 9
>     is about 5 or 6 %!
>
>     4.   5 or 6 % is unacceptable everywhere but especially in
>     Rwanda.  See what pops up (Gorilla deaths in first place) when you
>     google for “charcoal legality Rwanda”.  The outlawing of charcoal
>     occurred in 2004 - before this report.
>
>     5.  Rwanda (and other countries) could help itself by saying that
>     sale of charcoal needed proof (when and where) that there had been
>     productive use of the pyrolysis gases.  Costs should also go down
>     - not up. Employment should go up as wood is prepared.
>
>       Ron
>
>         On Dec 4, 2017, at 10:37 AM, Nikhil Desai
>         <pienergy2008 at gmail.com <mailto:pienergy2008 at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>         Crispin, Tom:
>
>         If ITDG was involved, Stephen Joseph and possibly Ray Holland
>         may remember.
>
>         I found an impressive Winrock report for USAID -
>         IMPLEMENTATION PLAN FOR INCREASING THE ADOPTION AND USE OF
>         EFFICIENTCHARCOAL COOKSTOVES IN URBAN ANDPERI-URBAN KIGALI
>         <https://www.scribd.com/document/54889270/Implementation-Plan-for-Increasing-the-Adoption-and-Use-of-Efficient-Charcoal-Cookstoves-in-Urban-and-Peri-Urban-Kigali> (Winrock
>         for USAID 2007).
>
>         It states, "In the late 1980s CARE helped a Rwandan
>         entrepreneur to produce and market the KCJ under the local
>         name canamaké. CARE only promoted the stove for about a year
>         in Rwanda. After the CAREproject ended, the Rwanda
>         entrepreneur continued production of the canamaké stove
>         (ESMAP, 1991)."
>
>         This comports with my memory from what Robert told me while
>         wandering in Kigali market in 2004. I think he started the
>         reported ESMAP activity in Kigali but stopped in 1994 after
>         the genocide until we went together in 2004. I became a target
>         of Kagame's internal security and intelligence apparatus, but
>         Robert continued and produced some other reports, including
>         some mentioned in this Winrock report that also has some
>         history of stove projects at the end.
>
>         I will try to locate the writer of this report.
>
>         Nikhil
>
>
>
>         On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 5:04 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott
>         <crispinpigott at outlook.com <mailto:crispinpigott at outlook.com>>
>         wrote:
>
>             Thanks, Tom for the great additions.
>
>             In the early stage of the IKJ it was apparent that the
>             ceramic component was going to be the major hurdle. The
>             acknowledgements page in the 1983 report by Maxwell
>             Kinyanjui and Laurie Childers has this:
>
>             <image001.png>
>
>             That says there was an educational tour to Thailand.
>
>             Hugh Allen was hired by ATI (Washington) but I am not
>             clear if he started with CARE or ended up with them. In
>             his book “The Kenyan Ceramic Jiko – A manual for stove
>             makers” (IT Publications, 1991) he says the production
>             system present was developed between 1986-1988.  The book
>             is contained in the AT Microfiche Library from Volunteers
>             in Asia. IT Publications, ATI and CARE are credited for
>             the book.
>
>             I think Hugh was a ceramics engineer because he had
>             studied ceramics under the son of world famous Bernard
>             Leach – the British Potter. Hugh told me the reason he was
>             contracted to work on the stove was the difficulty in
>             getting reliable results from the kilns: losses of
>             something like 40% were normal in the firing.
>
>             He developed the low tech Jigger Jolly and forming tools,
>             standardized the hole pattern and gave comprehensive
>             instructions about how to develop the clay content and
>             fire them. He introduced dome-topped kilns and spread the
>             production technology to the Sudan, Uganda, Tanzania,
>             Togo, Malawi and Rwanda. In short he “professionalized”
>             the product, bringing firing losses down to 3%. Later he
>             led the same type of exercise with the Bielenberg
>             sunflower oil press which inspired me greatly.
>
>             Footnote 2 reads:
>
>             <image002.jpg>
>
>             Regards
>
>             Crispin
>
>             __
>
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