[Stoves] Understanding TLUDs, MPF and more. (was Re: Bangladesh TLUD )

[Paul Anderson]

Crispin,

1.  Use the WORDS up draft and top lit to describe other things. But the 
acronym of TLUD has a rather distinctive meaning to most people who want 
some clarity when referring to stove types. Attempts to usurp meaningful 
names or cause confusion about meanings are  not to be encouraged (to 
say that mildly).

2.  Referring to burning charcoal, tell me about lighting of cold 
CHARCOAL on the top.   The reality is that charcoal fires are lit at the 
bottom (bottom burning) and the when the pyrolytic front reaches the 
bottom of a batch TLUD operation, the fire (the glowing char) is at the 
bottom.

So where do you get this stuff about a descending "fire front" in 
charcoal fires?   Air coming in on the top does burn some char, but that 
is hardly the way that a charcoal fire works.

Paul

Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email:  psanders at ilstu.edu
Skype:   paultlud    Phone: +1-309-452-7072
Website:  www.drtlud.com

On 12/12/2017 8:26 PM, Crispin Pemberton-Pigott wrote:
>
> Dear Andrew
>
> You are correct: the gasifier that burns charcoal with a descending 
> "fire front" (is that OK with you?) is a TLUD gasifier, not a TLUD 
> pyrolyser.
>
> I object to the attempts to assign a principle of operation, a 
> lighting position, and a burn direction, to /one particular 
> implementation/ of it. Top lit refers to something lit on top. Updraft 
> refers to the direction of air flow.
>
> It is inappropriate for promoters of TLUD pyrolysers to claim that the 
> term does not/cannot be applied to other devices that are top lit 
> updraft combustors.
>
> We need another term for the moving fire front (if you will) that is 
> descending through the fuel in a downwards migrating direction.
>
> There is a rule on the internet that once a conversation has descended 
> to the point that one party calls another a Nazi it is time to stop.
>
> Crispin
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stoves [mailto:stoves-bounces at lists.bioenergylists.org] On 
> Behalf Of Andrew Heggie
> Sent: 13-Dec-17 02:56
> To: Discussion of biomass cooking stoves <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Understanding TLUDs, MPF and more. (was Re: 
> Bangladesh TLUD )
>
> On Tue, 12 Dec 2017 02:29:42 +0000,Crispin Pemberton-Pigott 
> <crispinpigott at outlook.com <mailto:crispinpigott at outlook.com>> wrote:
>
> >Dear Gordon
>
> >
>
> >The MPF in an Adams Report is seen when using small biomass, just as 
> in a TLUD small-fuel pyrolyser. It is also seen in gasifiers that does 
> not make char. The YDD charcoal gasifier (used to run engines) has an 
> MPF and it burns pure charcoal. As Andrew says, it is a natural 
> phenomenon, not something unique to TLUD's (or BLDD's) nor to char-makers.
>
> That wilful misinterpretation of my post is another example of your spin.
>
> We often see common words used in combinations that come to have a 
> meaning understood by all. Americans have some simple examples, side 
> and walk when combined become understood by everyone to mean a footway 
> at the side of a highway. The german language accepts portmanteau 
> words, an obvious one that springs to mind is combining National 
> Sozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei which we english speakers know 
> as the national socialist party and wouldn't use that term to describe 
> anything else. More recently we have seen and old phenomenom mentioned 
> by John Evelyn in his 1662 book for making char in the open described 
> as flame curtain, we have come to accept this term for the process 
> because it is descriptive.
>
> As I said there are many processes where a front moves steadily 
> through a medium but the term migrating pyrolysis front has come to be 
> understood as describing the TLUD process even if I prefer descending 
> pyrolysis front.
>
> Andrew
>
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