[Stoves] stove

[Frank Shields]

Nikhil, Stovers,

One thing for sure - nothing get better until something is actually done 
at the ground level. Talking and studies do nothing. AND if the fuel 
needs be better optimize (for example) for the air to be cleaner and 
people refuse to do it then there is no hope. Next village...

The WBT is best used to determine the characteristics of the fuel 
necessary for a specific stove and not for what it has been used for 
(ie. best stove). Pack a TLUD with sawdust and see how long it takes to 
boil water. Then pack with large blocks of wood and again time the 
process. Likely an optimum somewhere between sawdust and large blocks 
that work best with a range of acceptable particle sizes.  Particle size 
is just one of the many parameters measured.

Regards

Frank

Gabilan laboratory

Keith Day Company, Inc.





On 12/16/17 8:08 AM, Nikhil Desai wrote:
> Frank:
>
> Whether the cook wants to or can use a particular fuel or a heavy cast 
> iron pot or a thin plate metal pot and is comfortable raising or 
> lowering it, we cannot tell without getting groudlevel intelligence. 
> Theories are only an easy way out.
>
> Science would first strive to identify the problem, then understand 
> what variables can be controlled in what contexts and how, THEN move, 
> if needed, to the IWA exercise.
>
> Putting cart before the horse, over and over again, is a proof of 
> insanity .
>
> Nikhil
>
> On Dec 14, 2017, at 10:56 PM, Frank Shields <franke at cruzio.com 
> <mailto:franke at cruzio.com>> wrote:
>> On 12/14/17 5:37 PM, Nikhil Desai wrote:
>>> Frank:
>>>
>>> You wrote, "I don't know if we can get the variables controlled 
>>> enough to do what you suggest about determining high and low power 
>>> possibilities. That may be left to Cecil and his ethnography work to 
>>> see what people like best."
>> I'm thinking (as Tami suggests) that a stove works best with a good 
>> active combustion. We should not try to slow the flame to lower the 
>> Power. Perhaps that can be done at Box-4. Use a heavy cast iron pot 
>> or a thin plate metal pot depending on the power wanted to get into 
>> the task. Lift the pot higher than optimum to lower Power or add more 
>> water.
>>
>> <snip>
>>>
>>>
>>> Even in a narrow geography of one agroclimatic zone, the variations 
>>> in fuel quality and prices, stove use patterns, may vary quite a bit 
>>> and you may not find the control over variables that you want. 
>>> (Except, say, you had a processed fuel that can be delivered 
>>> economically and reliably.)
>> Fuel quality and stove use patterns will vary. The purpose of what i 
>> suggest and what others have left unmentioned when using processed 
>> fuel in their stove tests. And it is true that we may not find the 
>> control over variables that we want - That's science. At least we 
>> will know precisely what the problem is.
>>
>> <snip>
>>>
>>> Nikhil
>>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Frank Shields
>> Gabilan Laboratory
>> Keith Day Company, Inc.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 12:44 AM, Frank Shields <franke at cruzio.com 
>>> <mailto:franke at cruzio.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     Dear Philip,
>>>
>>>     There may be a lot more things we can determine once we get
>>>     control of the six variables And that will depend on how much
>>>     control we can get. Even the discussion Paul and Crispin are
>>>     having as the CO and CO2 reactions will need control of the
>>>     biomass properties and packing before answers (with help with
>>>     using helium surrogate) is determined. And we must be using real
>>>     wild biomass prepared for the combustion chamber or the results
>>>     will mean nothing when the stove and test results are delivered
>>>     to the receiving site.
>>>
>>>     I don't know if we can get the variables controlled enough to do
>>>     what you suggest about determining high and low power
>>>     possibilities. That may be left to Cecil and his ethnography
>>>     work to see what people like best.
>>>
>>>     But I do feel certain that nothing will be done (like for the
>>>     past ten years) until we do get control of the variables. This
>>>     is not an engineering problem - like it has been treated. Simply
>>>     going from biomass fuel > to > completed task. And how well
>>>     people like using the stove.
>>>
>>>     Regards
>>>
>>>
>>>     Frank Shields
>>>
>>>     Gabilan Laboratory
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>

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