[Stoves] Chinese stove photo sequence
Rebecca A. Vermeer
ravermeer at telus.net
Sat Jan 21 14:44:34 CST 2017
Hi Neil,
Thanks for answering my questions and providing the requested photos. There is a painless way to show a huge number of photos --simply upload them to Google photos as in the example below. When viewing the photos, click on the i (info) icon (usually on the upper right hand corner of the screen) to display the description for each photo. TO VIEW THE PHOTOS OR THE VIDEO MADE FROM THE PHOTOS AND VIDEO CLIPS, JUST CLICK ON THE LINKS BELOW.
Feb 27, 2015 EM COOKING w WHIRLY PINAY-L LAKBAY ARAL MILAGROSA
https://photos.google.com/share/AF1QipOL7sW8UdzlRjEIAcBc9kw-aiWhZz8LSYHbxo3RGZpQupkjL1DJE74q4SBCXd8-Aw?key=M1NkQXcxYVVkQzFrbzRhcUR2UTRIY3VQdmZmRm9B
Introducing Eco-Kalan, Bingka Oven & Whirly Pinay to Lakbay Aral Milagrosa, Feb 27, 2015
https://youtu.be/zNqBGhW8iLY
Regards,
Rebecca
----- Forwarded Message -----
From: neiltm at uwclub.net
To: "REBECCA VERMEER" <ravermeer at telus.net>
Sent: Monday, January 16, 2017 3:04:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Stratifying TLUDs for 'turn down'
Replying privately:
On 16 Jan 2017 at 0:17, Rebecca A. Vermeer wrote:
> Hello Neil and Ray,
> I have followed your exchanges with great interest. It would be a big
> help if you post several photos (many, if possible) of your stoves
> (tincaniums and regular cooking stoves); of the different fuels you load
> into the burn chamber; of the flame at different stages of the cooking -
> (do you add more fuel to the burn while cooking?); of your charcoal. and
> BBQ.
> Many thanks,
>
> Rebecca Vermeer
Hi Rebecca,
I will have to try to show the stratified fuelling and then the sequence
of the burn stages resulting from the loading. I'll see what I can
manage, if it ever stops raining here!
I'll see if I can take some worthwhile photos though.
Meanwhile here is an ebay link to the Chinese stoves I use:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Portable-Wood-Gas-Burning-Backpacking-Camping-Pi
cnic-Party-Stove-Alcohol-Stove-/162281440046?hash=item25c8ba432e:g:t~EAAOS
wA3dYKtdv
and this is the type of BBQ on which I burn the fine char saved from the
stoves:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PORTABLE-CAST-IRON-FIRE-PIT-CHARCOAL-BBQ-GRILL-G
ARDEN-PATIO-CAMPING-BARBECUE-NEW-/121371121235?hash=item1c42485653:g:euoAA
OSwHoFXuGO5
The only modification is to use a fine expanded metal mesh over the
course grate designed for commercial lumpwood charcoal or briquettes.
This I cut from a couple of disposable BBQ tray meshes, offset to further
decrease the size of the mesh to retain my fine char. As this results in
restricting airflow, I employ a compter fan in a sheet metal 'funnel'
placed in the air door at the bottom. This results in very rapid
lighting of the char (from newspaper under the grate) and further extends
the control possible over the fire.
My earlier thread in which I described half filling the stove with damp
wood, then dry on top, involved refuelling early on instead of towards
the end of the burn. This enabled the damp or wet wood to dry out
sufficiently to consume at a much slower rate while the fire was kept up
on top by regular feeding with dry wood. That thread can be found from
13th Nov 2016 entitled 'Accidental TLUD technique discovery'. As can be
seen from that post I have made useful progress with such experimentation
since.
So to answer your refuelling Q, in the earlier thread early refuelling
was utilised to overcome the stove going out upon meeting the damp/wet
wood layer, in the latest report, no such sharp transition, more mixed,
so no refuelling necessary, the time to cook porridge being short enough
to complete with just the batch loading. These are small stoves and so a
batch burn might last only 10 mins with completely dry wood and be an
inferno, extending to 20 to 30 mins if the wood is only air dry and a bit
damp, and a more useful cooking heat. To extend it for longer cooking
times it is necessary to refuel, but the conventional(?) way of doing so,
towards the end of the batch burn has several disadvantages over
refuelling at the start, which is discussed in the earlier thread. A
TLUD typically increases in heat output throughout the batch burn,
whereas what is usually wanted is the most heat at the start, reducing
for later simmering etc. My stratifying with wet/damp wood with or
without reloading gives the desired hot start and later reduced heat.
Best wishes, Neil
From: neiltm at uwclub.net
To: "DISCUSSION OF BIOMASS COOKING STOVES" <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org>
Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 7:03:32 PM
Subject: [Stoves] Chinese stove photo sequence
As requested, (be careful what you wish for ;-), I've photo sequenced my batch loading with bottom layer of wet wood. Despite this post containing 21 shots, they only total one megabyte before encoding for email, averaging just under 49kilobytes each. I apologise if this is still a pain. Please be careful not to include them all in any reply!
I've cheated slightly in that the photos leading up to lighting are of my first attempt at recording the stages in photos, and as you might guarantee, that burn actually turned out poorly, so I did it all over again, but this time only photographed from light off to save me some time and effort. I used same wood from same two sources, but for the first time using this technique the first burn went nearly out and smoky at the wet wood, whereas the second burn didn't. It still boiled the full kettle though and a little blow on top quickly revived it. If anything I think that demonstrates that I'm sailing a bit close to failure as I can't really say why the difference. I'm using very large chunks of the dry wood which probably makes for increased variability from batch to batch so maybe that had something to do with it.
The bottom layer of wet wood is 2 or 3 year old hazel coppice used as bean poles in the garden, but now too brittle and weak to be reused again, so has become stove fuel. So not quite rotten but somewhat more absorbent than fresher. Been rained on, snowed on and frozen in the last couple of days, and shown here frozen in my hand before cutting up for the stove. The grass in the background just about reveals some frost. Weight of this wood (cut and in the stove) - 77 grams:
This is wood I would not attempt to try to light off. The outside was wet, the heart wood damp. I suppose I should weigh, dry and re-weigh a piece to determine the actual moisture content shouldn't I?
The main wood, warm straight off the top of our central heating boiler is oak that was felled green only weeks ago, chunked green with the bark still on and completely dried:
I would not normally burn such large chunks relative to the stove, but had been experminenting in this way with reliable vigorous burns so saw no reason not to continue for these experiments. Dry wood weight - 600grams including....
.....a top layered mini bottom lit bonfire of thinner splits of same wood and grated candle wax on top to light. We are now on the second take, so not *exactly* what you've seen thus far, but close enough for the photos. I now seem to recall that I loaded smaller pieces of dry immediately on top of the wet latterly in order to ensure a robust transition. Otherwise same chunk sizes above. That's candle wax gratings, not sawdust on top:
Time 0' 0"
The concentrator ring is more of a cone or dome shape really which I think contributes to this stoves nice performance, and I prefer the high riser version for giving the flame more space and the ability to refuel without removing the pot:
Time 1' 31"
Kettle on for realistic conditions and then removed for least possible time for subsequent photos of the flame. Flames already licking round the sides of the kettle:
Time 2' 10"
By 2.5 mins it was burning at pretty much the strength it sustained until it reached the wet wood layer at the bottom with only a slight lull at around 4 mins as it transitioned from the starter fire to the large chunks below. This is not something all that typical, and probably an artifact of the large chunks, so won't burden the list with that part of the sequence.
Time 2' 31"
Towards the end of the dry wood stage, and typical up to then:
Time 13' 04"
Time 14' 27"
Within the next minute the flame starts to get smaller as it hits the wet wood, starting a whole new phase of useful burn that goes on for another 10 minutes, whereas without that layer, pyrolysis would have finished within a further 2 at most with a big flare up, and the char pretty much exhausted by the further 10.
Time 15' 32"
If you look carefully at the tiny spiky flame to the middle right in the next picture, this is an example of what I meant by a flame appearing to emanate from the bottom of the stove, which I'm sure is the case, from the wet wood. I'll try and have the camera handy to catch future such moments, as I have seen better.
Time 16' 14"
By now it looks as if pyrolysis has all but finished, but the camera wasn't picking up the quite substantial but clear flame...
Time 18' 11"
....as can be seen when I shaded the stove from the light:
Time 18' 44"
and over two minutes later with the kettle over a still very useful flame....
Time 20' 58"
now vigorously boiling the kettle after about 18 minutes, which contained 50 fl oz or 2 3/4 imperial pints, thats about 1.5 litres of cold mains tap water.
Not the fastest boil, which was 10 minutes from lighting with just dried wood, and I realise that the larger chunks of a denser wood did not make for the towering inferno possible where the flames leap to twice the kettle handle height, which is a bit silly.
Time 21' 09"
Still going over another 3 minutes after the kettle boiled:
Time 24' 15"
Last of pyrolysis, 9 minutes 39 seconds after the dry wood met the wet, making roughly a third of the total burn time from much less than a third of the volume of wood. 77grams wet (hazel), 600 grams dry (oak).
Time 25' 09"
Leaving....
Time 26' 41"
34 grams of char and ash.
I have many more intermediate photos if anyone wants to zone in on a time frame. This is the shortened version!
As can be imagined, when I intersperse pieces of wet wood progressively through the loading, the flame height is further controlled and burn time usefully extended without reloading, but I wanted to emphasise the transition for this demonstration. No additional fuel was added nor any tending in the above sequence.
Neil Taylor
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