[Stoves] Fwd: Full cooking with minimal TLUD stove --- Re: Rebecca Vermeer sent you a video: "Cooking Performance of Eco-Kalan Stainless Steel TLUD Stove, March 13, 2017"

Tue Mar 21 13:49:52 CDT 2017

Cooking Performance of Eco-Kalan Stainless Steel TLUD Stove, Nilat-an, March 13, 2017 

https://youtu.be/oUbbiEcN7Rc 

Cooking Performance of Eco-Kalan Stainless Steel TLUD Stove, Nilat-an, March 13, 2017 

https://goo.gl/photos/F2b9smQ1Vi8gS3AW6 

Dear Tony, Neil and All, 

Thank you for your suggestions and encouragement. 

1. I have opted to make the TinCan TLUD stove into stalnless steel (0.4mm) for a total cost of about US$10 for the entire set up (including bricks, parilla, kalan, plain 2" riser and handle). Steel and labour (local tinsmith) account for 60% of total costs. 

2. Two canisters each containing over 1 kg dry wood fuel will cook 2 dishes - meat with noodles/vegetables and fish. Cooking rice, which requires the "palangay" method (cooking with embers), is best done with the Eco-Kalan stove. The embers in the TLUD stove are too far from the pot bottom to be effective. Hence, charcoal is collected for other uses. 

3. Given the choice of being able to use only 1 stove, all 6 members of my household who cook in an outdoor kitchen at Felipa Beach prefer the Eco-Kalan-C to the TLUD stove. However, they don't mind owning both stoves if money is not an issue and precut and dry fuel is available all the time, 

4. A simple 2" hollow riser is better than one with a fan or propeller at the bottom. Identical hollow risers can be produced at the local shop but not so with the fan or propeller type. 

5. The handle is great -- cools off very quickly. 

As always, all your comments are much appreciated. 

Rebecca 

On 9 Mar 2017 at 2:38, Tony Vovers wrote: > Hopefully if this thread suggestions are followed the "best" tin can setup can be defined and some simple tools to hot swap cans. A straight metal rod/thick fence wire passed through the secondary air holes ought to be all you need from the looks of things. It is the only tool I usually use for lifting and replacing the pot support concentrator on the Chinese stove, and the stove body itself for carrying the stove and tipping out the char into a quenching tin. Sometimes I use a pair of pliers. Neil Taylor 

From: "TONY VOVERS" <vovers1 at gmail.com> 
To: "DISCUSSION OF BIOMASS COOKING STOVES" <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org> 
Sent: Thursday, March 9, 2017 2:38:15 AM 
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Full cooking with minimal TLUD stove --- Re: Rebecca Vermeer sent you a video: "Cooking Performance of Eco-Kalan Tincan TLUD Stove, Feb 6, 2017" 

Rebecca 

Thanks so much for your postings 
- what I especially like is the versatility and simplicity of the materials and the designs. 

The base material is clay so does not require machine shop and specialist metal workers. 
The base unit looks like it is still a rocket stove so those without time/energy to manage the fuel can still cook with sticks. 

The Tin cans for TLUD probably won't last too long but seem simple enough to be easily remade. 
Sand as a valve for primary air is a great idea. 

Hopefully if this thread suggestions are followed the "best" tin can setup can be defined and some simple tools to hot swap cans. 

Please do keep this thread going, I can see the importance of fuel management is again rising to the top of the list of needs for a usable gasifier. 

Your Eco-Kalan website is well structured for information including a section on sustainable gathering of wood, the topics of coppicing and pollarding do not get enough airtime in the stove community. 

http://www.eco-kalan.com/index.php?index 

Just a few words of support - thanks for the effort and quality of the feedback and an interesting development on the eco-Kalan product as a gasifier. 

TonyV 

Tony Vovers 
+1 281 7381000 (VOIP) 
+62 (813) 3888 9062 (HP) 

On Wed, Mar 8, 2017 at 11:10 PM, Paul Anderson < psanders at ilstu.edu > wrote: 

Dear all, 

Rebecca's message (below) merits special attention. Very informative about a low-cost variation of TLUD stoves. Low cost because it is with a clay pot support, hollow clay brick for primary air entry with sand for air control, and one or two tin cans. I ask Rebecca to tell us the cost of her TLUD stoves. I suspect that you are under US$ 5. !!!!! (not counting the bench / platform upon which the stoves are placed for convenient operation height for those who cook while standing up. But the stove is short enough by itself to appeal to those who cook while seated or squatting.) 

She is past the stages of proof of concept and the proof of acceptance-by-cooks. Some fine tuning remains, but this arrangement is close to ready to be into some (further) pilot studies. 

Notes (that only make sense to those who have viewed Rebecca's materials): 
1. Advantage of a densified fuel ("log pieces"), but wood in a taller tincan would do the same job and same time. Also your comment about the male cooks (army) and fuel preparation help point out that fuel preparation can be a new employment for some unskilled workers. Fuel type and supply are very important, but almost always any small complaints can be resolved with a little attention to fuel handling. 

2. I am not 100% sure of how the top (concentrator) lid is made and placed onto the fuel can. (I suspect usage of the can opener that leaves the lip on the lid. Highly economical use of the tin can.) Instead or alternatively, a separate concentrator lid could be made from a metal dinnerware plate or improvised easily with a tinsmith. 

3. Video and photos show TWO stoves that I will call "short one" (on the left) and "taller one" on the right which is simply raised on a few bricks. I like the taller one because it has space for and uses a 3+ inch riser (the second tin can, best seen in the still photos before it is put into place.) 

4. About that riser, I suggest that you turn it upside down. (or completely cut out both ends). And consider larger diameter cans for risers. Experimentation is needed. Please report what you find to work best (or to not work well). 

5. There are still issues of safety, such as contact / movement of the very hot single-wall metal pieces (TLUD fuel canister, riser, etc). Tongs or handles will eventually appear, adding convenience but increasing the price. This will be adjusted according to the prefernces of the stove users, and there should NOT be requirements that these stoves have handles, etc,. thereby delaying the availability of these stoves to people who could want them. 

6. And an important note about BIOCHAR in Rebecca's configuration: In the video, they choose to burn the charcoal, which is fine. But if you want to make biochar, simply remove the fuel canister at the end of pyrolysis, and insert a second tincan what was already prepared and ready for use. I think that this stove might have significant interest in Bangladesh with Mabubul's project. 

Congratulations to Rebecca and her team!! (I suggest that a condensed version of the video and photo collection might also be appropriate.) 

Everyone can enjoy reading and seeing their success!!! 

Paul 
Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: psanders at ilstu.edu Skype:   paultlud    Phone: +1-309-452-7072 Website: www.drtlud.com 
On 3/8/2017 4:03 AM, Rebecca A. Vermeer wrote: 

Cooking Performance of Eco-Kalan TinCan TLUD Stoves with Wood Briquettes & Sticks, March 1, 2017 

https://youtu.be/ESiEWSBnewI 

NOTE: WHEN VIEWING A PHOTO ALBUM, LEFT CLICK ON THE i icon TO SEE THE INFO DETAILS OF EACH PHOTO. 

March 1, 2017 Broken Alder wood puck briquettes in widemouth Eco-Kalan Tincan TLUD stove - Cooking Peas Phase 1 

https://goo.gl/photos/LfSkQkeRHeYxmZKYA 

March 1, 2017 Ipil-Ipil Sticks in narrow mouth TinCan TLUD stove with riser - Cooking Peas Phase 2 

https://goo.gl/photos/9zttbuSzjLkQgb7V8 

Dear Paul, Ron, Julien, Jon and All, 

Thank you for your encouraging comments and valuable suggestions on the Feb. 6, 2017 video, "Cooking Performance of Eco-Kalan TinCan TLUD Stove . In the above March 1, 2017 video and photo albums, I responded to your comments as follows: 

1. J on's comment on squirting kerosene on the top of the fuel bed which then drips down to the bottom: 

The kindlings we use for starting a fire are now dipped into 25 ml of kerosene and placed on top of the fuel bed. 

2. Paul's and Julien's suggestion to turn down the flame. 

This has been achieved by: 

a) Sealing with sand all areas of primary air entry including the base of the TinCan which touch the parilla; the back opening and sides of the parilla; and a small but adjustable opening at the front end of the parilla 

b) Loading the minimum required fuel. 

c) Reducing the concentrator hole diameter and maintaining that same hole diameter for the riser. 

Of the above 3 measures, having a small but adjustable opening is the simplest way to control the flame. 

3. Paul's request for more photos -- please see the above photo albums. 

4. Ron's query on my cooks' views on the TLUD vs. Traditional approaches 

My female cooks have been using the Eco-Kalan-C for many years and therefore, are hard to wean away from the stove that allows them to do all their cooking effectively and use any type of found fuel year round at Felipa Beach, Dumaguete City, Negros Island, Philippines. They dislike cutting or sawing wood into prescribed lengths for my TLUD stoves. But since male cooks from the Philippine Army took on some of the cooking and most of the wood fuel preparations, all my cooks (males and females) now like to use the TinCan TLUD stove for short time cooking (within 1 hour) for dishes such as Pancit, Bam-I, soups, vegetables, small pieces or ground meats "because the TinCan stove (with dry wood and kerosene as fire starter) is easy to light, no smoke and fast cooking". For long time cooking (> 1 hour), they prefer to use the Eco-Kalan-C as adding fuel when needed is very easy. For frying, my cooks prefer to use the Eco-Kalan-C because they can adjust the temperature of the cooking oil easily by taking out or adding fuel to the fire. 

Since I introduced Wilvaco's (Willamete Valley Company) alder wood briquettes to my cooks for use in the Eco-Kalan-C and the Eco-Kalan TinCan TLUD stove (see video and photo albums below), I have noticed significant increase in their enthusiasm for and enjoyment from cooking. A fuel can really make a stove tic. The importance of a good and dry solid fuel motivates me to participate in finding ways to make wood briquettes commercially viable for everyone. 

Warm regards from Felipa Beach, 

Rebecca Vermeer 

Eco-Kalan Project in the Philippines 

________________________________________________________ 
_____________________________- 
Previous message is below. 

From: "PAUL ANDERSON" <psanders at ilstu.edu> 
To: "DISCUSSION OF BIOMASS COOKING STOVES" <stoves at lists.bioenergylists.org> , "REBECCA VERMEER" <ravermeer at telus.net> 
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2017 11:37:06 AM 
Subject: Re: [Stoves] Rebecca Vermeer sent you a video: "Cooking Performance of Eco-Kalan Tincan TLUD Stove" 

Rebecca, 

I agree with Ron that it is a very good video. I am very glad to see your accomplishments. 

My comments are intended to be constructive. 

1. Your fire is a bit high. That indicates some leakage of primary air. I suspect that it is where the can is sitting on the hollow brick, not at the primary air entrance that you correctly cover with sand. Check all around. Put sand around the base of the metal can. You can also try moist sand. Please let me know your results (because I am still learning). 

2. Have you experimented with slighly smaller diameter of the concentrator hole in the top of the metal can? 

3. Also, a few more inches of height between the concentrator top and the bottom of the pot would allow for more time for more turbulence. 

4. Additional photos or videos from other angles and of the individual part would be useful. 

In general, fabulous work. I suspect that you will find further ways to improve the results. Some ways will be beneficial. Others will be good but not worth incorporating. 

Looking forward to hearing more of your activities with TLUD combustion. 

Paul 

Doc  /  Dr TLUD  /  Prof. Paul S. Anderson, PhD
Email: psanders at ilstu.edu Skype:   paultlud    Phone: +1-309-452-7072 Website: www.drtlud.com 

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